<entry id="2046012" stat="A" corpus="jmdict" type="jmdict">
<ent_corp type="jmdict">jmdict</ent_corp>
<ent_seq>2105610</ent_seq>
<k_ele>
<keb>鉈</keb>
</k_ele>
<r_ele>
<reb>なた</reb>
</r_ele>
<r_ele>
<reb>ナタ</reb>
<re_nokanji/>
</r_ele>
<sense>
<pos>&n;</pos>
<gloss>nata</gloss>
<gloss g_type="expl">sturdy broad-bladed knife, used in woodcraft and hunting (often with a rectangular blade)</gloss>
</sense>
<info>
<audit time="2006-11-08 00:00:00" stat="A">
<upd_detl>Entry created</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-08-17 15:08:19" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Nils Roland Barth</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Add “hatchet” gloss, which everyone gives, and fix explanation – it’s both a general term and a narrow (Japanese-specific) term.
(Saw on sign, telling an old story.)</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>GG5 daijr koj ja:WP
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/鉈</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -12,1 +12,3 @@
-<gloss>wide blade knife (similar to a machete but not so large)</gloss>
+<gloss>(Japanese) hatchet</gloss>
+<gloss>(Japanese) machete</gloss>
+<gloss g_type="expl">both general term for large blades (other than specialized ones such as axes, swords, etc.), and specifically for traditional Japanese-style wide blade knife, similar to a small machete</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-08-24 10:27:57" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Trimming greatly. I don't like "machete" here, and Google images shows a very wide range. Daijirin's gloss is pretty general, so I have followed it.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>Daijr, GG5, etc.</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -12,3 +12,2 @@
-<gloss>(Japanese) hatchet</gloss>
-<gloss>(Japanese) machete</gloss>
-<gloss g_type="expl">both general term for large blades (other than specialized ones such as axes, swords, etc.), and specifically for traditional Japanese-style wide blade knife, similar to a small machete</gloss>
+<gloss>hatchet</gloss>
+<gloss g_type="expl">traditional Japanese edged tool with short handle and wide blade</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-11-27 14:10:01" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I think uk.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>Saw it subtitled like this on a news show.
Also here:
https://mainichi.jp/articles/20181127/k00/
00e/040/246000c
"凶器か 現場から血の付いたナタ発見"
g ng
鉈 66379
ナタ 100749</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -9,0 +10,4 @@
+<r_ele>
+<reb>ナタ</reb>
+<re_nokanji/>
+</r_ele>
@@ -11,0 +16 @@
+<misc>&uk;</misc></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-11-27 22:33:13" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Kanji use appears to be slightly more common.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>鉈を持って 975
ナタを持って 689
なたを持って 115
鉈を振り 519
ナタを振り 352
なたを振り 91</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-11-28 00:02:58" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I agree.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>大なた 4632
おおなた 489
大鉈 7545</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -16 +15,0 @@
-<misc>&uk;</misc></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-11-28 00:06:01" stat="A">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>(for the record)</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>大ナタ 6682</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-11-28 03:26:18" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_refs>Google images for "hatchet" and "鉈" are really quite different (while 手斧 is a good match for "hatchet"). Is "hatchet" really the best
gloss, even if happens to be in the other dictionaries? Can we at least call it "nata hatchet" or "nata machete"? (6k, 9k google results)</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-12-06 03:25:13" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I think this works, with the expl. Also I think having an [expl] looks weird when the gloss is only "hatchet" - I get the impression that
it's the preceding gloss e.g. "hatchet" that's being explained, not the Japanese word.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -16 +16 @@
-<gloss>hatchet</gloss>
+<gloss>nata hatchet</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-12-06 21:44:02" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-07-28 10:49:59" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_detl>The term "hatchet" refers, exclusively, to a type of light axe.
A nata is not, in any way, shape, or form, an axe.
As is evident, when you look at any Japanese source, it is a knife.
(though it appears to generally be considered to be an apparently separate category, from 刀, in the Japanese mind/language ...except for 剣鉈, which are undeniably knives)</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%89%88
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%E9%89%88&t=palemoon&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -16,2 +16,2 @@
-<gloss>nata hatchet</gloss>
-<gloss g_type="expl">traditional Japanese edged tool with short handle and wide blade</gloss>
+<gloss>A type of knife for use in woodcraft and hunting</gloss>
+<gloss g_type="expl">Has a broad sturdy blade, typically set at a bit of an inward angle</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-07-29 06:42:51" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>From images the closest English term I can think of is "cleaver". Not sure the blade angle
needs to be mentioned.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -16,2 +16 @@
-<gloss>A type of knife for use in woodcraft and hunting</gloss>
-<gloss g_type="expl">Has a broad sturdy blade, typically set at a bit of an inward angle</gloss>
+<gloss>type of cleaver used in woodcraft and hunting</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-07-29 13:24:03" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_detl>A cleaver is a butcher/kitchen knife.
It has a completely different purpose and also possess very different blades, to a nata. A lot broader blade (a lot broader than the handle, notably) and though they are relatively thick and sturdy, they are significantly less so, than a nata. A lot of typical uses of a nata (especially splitting wood), would utterly ruin any cleaver.
The closest thing to a nata, would be a machete or a hunting knife. (and ken'nata do look like the latter, as well as being used as such, in addition to its other uses)
It is neither, however, so it would be wrong to call it such.
The angle is notable (though not universal/required), but I guess it's not really necessary to mention.
Also the blade is often of uniform breadth (basically a rectangle) aside from ken'nata (剣鉈), which have a more typical knife shape as well as usually being straight, but the same applies to that, so no need to mention it either, I suppose.
Speaking of which: Adding an entry for 剣鉈 may be a good idea.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -16 +16 @@
-<gloss>type of cleaver used in woodcraft and hunting</gloss>
+<gloss>type of sturdy broad bladed knife, used in woodcraft and hunting.</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-07-30 05:37:38" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>To me, the distinctive feature of a なた is the cleaver-like rectangular blade. (When I showed a picture several nata to my wife and asked her what she'd call them, she said "a cleaver".)</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -16 +16 @@
-<gloss>type of sturdy broad bladed knife, used in woodcraft and hunting.</gloss>
+<gloss>sturdy rectangular-bladed knife, used in woodcraft and hunting</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-07-30 06:55:03" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_detl>Whilst I agree that the most "typical"/"normal" なた is superficially somewhat similar to a cleaver (though not nearly as broad), a fundamental defining characteristic of a cleaver is still that it is a butcher/kitchen knife. (and again, the many significant differences I mentioned before)
There are many knives that a layman wouldn't be able to tell apart, just to look at them, that are nevertheless in very distinct and different categories. (the same applies to, e.g., axes)
...and many なた do not have that distinctive rectangular shape, as is clear from the references I mention. Note that 剣鉈 and 鉈鎌 are types of 鉈.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>https://kitanodaichihamidorinariki.naturum.ne.jp/c20207447.html
http://www.hounen.co.jp/nata.htm
https://toyokuni.net/aa_images/kei/2007/shikoku_turukirinata/turukirinata.jpg
https://store.shopping.yahoo.co.jp/honmamon/4580149743151.html</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-07-30 11:06:58" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_detl>How's this?</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -16 +16 @@
-<gloss>sturdy rectangular-bladed knife, used in woodcraft and hunting</gloss>
+<gloss>nata (Japanese pruning and debarking knife)</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-07-30 12:27:47" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>The problem with anonymous submissions is I don't know if the previous two are from the same person, and representing a progression of ideas, or from two different people and are contradicting.
I'd accept the most recent one, but I rather like the inclusion of "sturdy" in there somewhere.
BTW, I have drafted an entry for 剣鉈.
We've come a long way from GG5 and the other JEs which translate 鉈 as "hatchet".</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-07-30 19:35:05" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Alan</upd_name>
<upd_detl>I can say that last edit wasn't by the same person. I'm did the anonymous edits, aside from that one (also on natagama, naginata and nagamaki ...though now I checked, there's been one more anonymous edit to naginata, that wasn't mine)
I've put my first name here, this time (it says to use ones full name, but... I value my privacy. You don't like just the first name, I'll just go full anonymous)
Pruning and debarking are far from the only uses, nor particularly common ones, from what I can tell.
No source I can find, even bothers to mention those uses. (I'd assume they are uses, though, given the uses mentioned)
The uses that generally are mentioned, are clearing brush, cutting branches, splitting wood, butchering (hunted) animals, shaving (carving?) wood, etc.
(it also seems to be the go-to tool, at least for a common man [i.e. who doesn't do it professionally. They might have something else], for cutting off a bit of bamboo)
That said, I don't exactly disagree with borrowing the Japanese name "nata", to use for it, in English. After all, it's a knife type that doesn't really have a name in English (due to not existing, in the English speaking world)
...but that's not really something for a dictionary to do.
I also made another edit, after my last one that can be seen here, but before the one I didn't make. It's no longer visible here, but I did find it through the search.
I'll include it here, to make it visible (and the references I've included, are from that edit):
These are some other rectangular bladed knives, that are not, and could not be used as, cleavers. (in much the same way, that cleavers could not be used as なた)</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakiri_bōchō
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usuba_bōchō</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -16 +16 @@
-<gloss>nata (Japanese pruning and debarking knife)</gloss>
+<gloss>type of sturdy broad-bladed knife, used in woodcraft and hunting</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-07-31 03:20:23" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Hope we can close it now.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-07-31 12:42:15" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I'm not a big fan of "type of..." expl glosses as the only gloss. I think it's better to include the Japanese term first in entries like
these.
(I wouldn't mind "nata knife" or "nata machete" but "nata" by itself is perhaps "cleaner")</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -16 +16,2 @@
-<gloss>type of sturdy broad-bladed knife, used in woodcraft and hunting</gloss>
+<gloss>nata</gloss>
+<gloss g_type="expl">type of sturdy broad-bladed knife, used in woodcraft and hunting</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-07-31 19:48:42" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Alan</upd_name>
<upd_detl>I'm fine either way, though I lean towards just having the description.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-08-01 07:37:08" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I don't think the "type of" contributes anything.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -17 +17 @@
-<gloss g_type="expl">type of sturdy broad-bladed knife, used in woodcraft and hunting</gloss>
+<gloss g_type="expl">sturdy broad-bladed knife, used in woodcraft and hunting</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-08-05 12:36:36" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Alan</upd_name>
<upd_detl>To work better with the ken'nata entry</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -17 +17 @@
-<gloss g_type="expl">sturdy broad-bladed knife, used in woodcraft and hunting</gloss>
+<gloss g_type="expl">sturdy broad-bladed knife, used in woodcraft and hunting (often with a rectangular blade)</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2019-08-05 21:04:44" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
</info>
</entry>