jmdict
2068690
Active
(id:
1974091)
<entry id="1974091" stat="A" corpus="jmdict" type="jmdict">
<ent_corp type="jmdict">jmdict</ent_corp>
<ent_seq>2068690</ent_seq>
<k_ele>
<keb>悩ましげ</keb>
</k_ele>
<r_ele>
<reb>なやましげ</reb>
</r_ele>
<sense>
<pos>&adj-na;</pos>
<xref type="see" seq="1469830">悩ましい・なやましい・3</xref>
<gloss>anxious (appearance)</gloss>
<gloss>(appearing) uneasy</gloss>
</sense>
<sense>
<pos>&adj-na;</pos>
<xref type="see" seq="1469830">悩ましい・なやましい・1</xref>
<gloss>yearning (look, etc.)</gloss>
<gloss>languishing</gloss>
<gloss>desiring</gloss>
</sense>
<info>
<audit time="2005-12-22 00:00:00" stat="A">
<upd_detl>Entry created</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-11-01 20:13:40" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_detl>Hi, the use in the example sentence seems to be the opposite of the definition ("desirable" versus "desiring").</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-11-01 21:47:59" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I think the translation in the examples is a little off the mark. I have amended it.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>GG5</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-11-02 02:39:49" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Lots of WWW hits show soft-porn and girls in provocative poses, etc. I think the meaning has expanded somewhat.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>JWN: teasing (満たすつもりはなく性欲を引き出す/arousing sexual desire without intending to satisfy it)</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -16,0 +16,6 @@
+<sense>
+<pos>&adj-na;</pos>
+<gloss>teasing</gloss>
+<gloss>titillating</gloss>
+<gloss>sexually provocative</gloss>
+</sense></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-11-03 08:48:33" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>aren't the pictures just girls having a "yearning" look on
their faces? first hit on google images comes with the text
"悩ましげな表情で腰を少し曲げているところです"</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-11-06 22:58:30" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Well, "normally" the -げ form means the same as the regular adjective, but in this case it seems to have collected a few others.
I guess I could ask around the NSJs.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-11-21 04:26:07" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>After some discussion on the SLJ forum, I will:
(a) line it up with 悩ましい
(b) add the extra sense
As was pointed out, it all comes from 悩む.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -12,0 +12,19 @@
+<xref type="see" seq="1469830">悩ましい・なやましい・1</xref>
+<gloss>seductive</gloss>
+<gloss>carnal</gloss>
+<gloss>enchanting</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&adj-na;</pos>
+<xref type="see" seq="1469830">悩ましい・なやましい・2</xref>
+<gloss>troubling</gloss>
+<gloss>difficult</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&adj-na;</pos>
+<xref type="see" seq="1469830">悩ましい・なやましい・3</xref>
+<gloss>anxious</gloss>
+<gloss>uneasy</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&adj-na;</pos>
@@ -16,6 +35,0 @@
-<sense>
-<pos>&adj-na;</pos>
-<gloss>teasing</gloss>
-<gloss>titillating</gloss>
-<gloss>sexually provocative</gloss>
-</sense></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-02-22 01:33:03" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I think this entry benefited by being totally aligned with 悩ましい. Do we really have proof of it being used in all these different senses? I don't think
we should just add meanings the word theoretically can have and I don't really see much support for edit in the SLJ discussion. I also think a -げ entry,
if we should even have it in the first place, should not just be a duplicate of the adjective entry it was derived from, because the nuances are
different (e.g. "seeming", "looking like", "with a XX look").
_
I think this entry should preferably be 1) deleted or possibly 2) paired down to two senses (④ & ③):
[adj-na] yearning (look)
[adj-na]seemingly uneasy; anxious (look)
yearning is in GG5 and the two of them seem to dominate the search results.
_
げ 【形動】entries are just the same as さ【名】- they're listed in daij under 【派生】 but aren't given their own entries. GG5 too only lists -さ/-げ as a
"compound"/in example sentences. I think we too should think about coming up with a different way to include derivatives like なやましげ, なやましがる, and
なやましさ. I don't know if it might be a drag to implement in the database, but I think it would be great if we could add this information to the なやまし
い entry instead of giving them separate entries, without any definitions specified, just like daij do. This is how it looks in daijs:
_
[派生]なやましがる［動五］なやましげ［形動］なやましさ［名］
_
I could see jmdict entries having this type of tagging, appearing at the bottom of entries:
_
Derivatives: [v5r] なやましがる (see がる), [adj-na] なやましげ (see 気・げ), [n] なやましさ (see さ)
Technical but I'm thinking you could do these as xrefs, possibly. [derivative_garu_v5r:なやしまがる][derivative_adj-na:"なやましさ"][derivative_ge:"なやまし
げ"]
_
In certain cases it can still be good to have a げ entry, for example when the usage is significantly different from the original word. But again, if
we're just cloning the original glosses - what's the point of the entry, really?</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/sci.lang.japa
n/%E6%82%A9%E3%81%BE%E3%81%97%E3%81%92%7Csort:date/sci.l
ang.japan/xNb96di-ogU/flsafupmmSwJ
ngrams
悩ましげ 1016
悩ましさ 173
悩ましがる No matches
なやましげ 96
なやましさ 31
なやましがる No matches</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-02-22 02:17:05" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>*I think this entry _hasn't_ benefited from being totally
aligned with 悩ましい.
(is what I meant to say)</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-02-22 06:43:36" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I think the entry should be kept; it's in Koj as well as GG5. And cutting it back to senses 3 & 4 would fit with GG5. Koj just has "悩ましいさま。気分が悪い様子。". But then there's the Tanaka sentence pair: "彼女の悩ましげな姿を見て、彼はすっかり夢中になってしまいました. After seeing her provocative body, he became obsessed with her." which implies we should keep sense 1.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-03-08 04:11:33" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>To get this one moving, I'm proposing just having the last two senses again, which fits better with the refs. If it's approved I'll link the sentence to the 2nd sense.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -12,13 +11,0 @@
-<xref type="see" seq="1469830">悩ましい・なやましい・1</xref>
-<gloss>seductive</gloss>
-<gloss>carnal</gloss>
-<gloss>enchanting</gloss>
-</sense>
-<sense>
-<pos>&adj-na;</pos>
-<xref type="see" seq="1469830">悩ましい・なやましい・2</xref>
-<gloss>troubling</gloss>
-<gloss>difficult</gloss>
-</sense>
-<sense>
-<pos>&adj-na;</pos>
@@ -30,0 +18 @@
+<xref type="see" seq="1469830">悩ましい・なやましい・1</xref></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-03-08 19:32:53" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>To distinguish it's a -げ</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -13,2 +13,2 @@
-<gloss>anxious</gloss>
-<gloss>uneasy</gloss>
+<gloss>anxious (appearance)</gloss>
+<gloss>(appearing) uneasy</gloss>
@@ -18,0 +19 @@
+<gloss>yearning (look, etc.)</gloss>
@@ -20 +20,0 @@
-<gloss>yearning</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2018-03-09 05:15:49" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
</info>
</entry>