| 54. |
A 2025-03-08 10:35:38 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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| 53. |
A* 2025-03-08 06:07:15
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Comments: |
Fixing typo. |
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@@ -19 +19 @@
-<gloss>appeal for the cuteness of young or prebubescent female characters</gloss>
+<gloss>appeal for the cuteness of young or prepubescent female characters</gloss> |
| 52. |
A 2025-02-26 01:08:41 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Quiet |
| 51. |
A* 2025-02-19 02:25:50 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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| 50. |
A 2025-02-19 02:25:31 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
GG5: ＝ロリータ･コンプレックス; 〔その男性〕 a man attracted to very young girls.
Chujiten: 〈ロリータコンプレックスの略〉 a sexual obsession with young girls; a “Lolita complex”.
Daijisen (abbr. of ロリータコンプレックス) "幼女・少女にのみ性欲を感じる異常心理。.." |
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I'm attempting to get some closure here. I'm proposing an extra gloss in sense 1, as in GG5, ànd simplifying sense 2 a little.
I'll close it to shorten the queue and reopen for a while.
We should align ロリータコンプレックス with sense 1. |
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Diff: |
@@ -13,0 +14 @@
+<gloss>man attracted to very young girls</gloss>
@@ -17,4 +18,3 @@
-<misc>&fict;</misc>
-<s_inf>usu. in otaku subculture</s_inf>
-<gloss>appeal for the cuteness of young or prebubescent female characters in japanese fictional works</gloss>
-<gloss>fictional characters permeating a young, childlike and carefree aesthetic</gloss>
+<s_inf>usu. in otaku fiction subculture</s_inf>
+<gloss>appeal for the cuteness of young or prebubescent female characters</gloss>
+<gloss>characters presenting a young, childlike and carefree aesthetic</gloss> |
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(show/hide 49 older log entries)
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| 49. |
A* 2025-02-14 15:55:36
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Comments: |
I am personally content with the changes that have been made.
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By "layman's usage" I mean it from the perspective of an otaku/lolicon. The average person does not distinguish between the niche otaku sense and the more common pedophilic sense. Not that the layman's usage is "wrong" or "incorrect" unless targeted at otaku. "OCD" is another such term that has a popular "layman's usage". People say they have "OCD" because they like to stay clean or because they organize their books by color instead of alphabetically and that is the casual, layman's use of the term. But medically "OCD" means a debilitating compulsion such as washing your hands so often in an attempt to clean them that you rub the skin raw and begin to bleed but you can't stop because you don't feel your hand are clean yet. The "layman's use" is the more common usage of "OCD" much to the frustration of people who suffer from OCD.
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Thank you again for your time and having this discussion. |
| 48. |
A* 2025-02-14 14:09:20 Sombrero1 <...address hidden...>
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It helps that you are trying to also understand my viewpoint here. Thank you.
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I intended to dig a bit deeper into the two sides of meaning I mentioned in my previous reply. So I did, and I will
give some more insight into what I've taken from it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolicon#History
It is important to realize that the otaku subculture is something that mainly (but not entirely) developed out of the "lolicon" scene that had developed in the 1970s-80s. And prior to that disctinction the (not yet disctinctly formed and named) lolicon scene also featured the realism artstyle 劇画 found in other pornographic works at the time.
And I believe that which you call the "layman's usage" is simply the usage outside of otaku subculture. And while that may equate to "layman's usage" for you, it shows to me that the word isn't otaku exclusive. And that is why it is important to make and keep a distinction here, I believe for the good of both sides. And I do think it would be a blissful assumption to claim that "(all) lolicon content is viewed purely in a non sexual or 'otaku-sexual (cf. Tamai saito below)' way".
https://mogami.neocities.org/files/robot_ghosts.pdf (Tamaki Saito is a psychiatrist specializing in this area of research)
Here is an excerpt from a translation of Tamaki Saito's article on "otaku sexuality", taken from the book "Robot Ghosts and Wired Dreams". This helped me a lot to understand the second sense and your argument in particular:
"The most popular among the doujinshi are the pornographic parodies
in the “eighteen and over” genre. It is easy to hold these works up and
proclaim disgust with the otaku, but unless one can overcome this visceral
dislike, it is impossible to perceive the otaku’s true nature. As my list of
otaku descriptors indicates, the issue of the otaku is one of sexuality, and it
is this genre that displays their unique qualities in distilled form. It is not
easy to locate a sexual object in fiction itself: that represents a taste for
something far more direct than we see in the fetishism of ordinary fan
manias. Many otaku actually have imagined sexual relationships with their
favorite manga and anime protagonists, and masturbate to these fantasies.
Something that deserves special mention here is otaku sexuality’s estrangement from everyday life. For example, there are many varieties of
the odd sexuality (tousaku) depicted in the eighteen-and-over genre, including an attraction to little girls that could be seen as pedophilic. It is around this issue that the revulsion directed at otaku becomes most intense.
Many people immediately associate this with an incident that popularized the
word in the mass media, the 1989 child murders committed by the animeand porn-obsessed serial killer Miyazaki Tsutomu. But contrary to popular expectations, the vast majority of otaku are not pedophiles in actual
life. They are said to choose respectable partners of the opposite sex and to
have the kind of sex lives one would term healthy. The evidence for this
separation between textual and actual sexuality is that only a tiny number
of otaku commit criminal acts, even though they number in the millions.
As a matter of fact, since 1989, Japan has seen no other child murders
committed by otaku."
"imagined sexual relationships" also precisely hits the mark for me, as it is still something sexual. I agree that a fictional and parasocial (one-sided at that) sexual relationship doesn't harm any real children and thus does not fall under the pedophelia umbrella in legal terms.
(I do not intend to accuse you or anyone else here)But the fetishization, especially as mentioned in the first sense, of children or childhood as done in Japan is something largely viewed as morally reprehensible, and not just from an outsiders perspective as Sluzhevsky explains in her paper. But that discussion extends far beyond the scope of just the term "lolicon" and I do not wish to ignite it here. I merely state this in order to emphasize the fact that even the glossing of this term is a byproduct of the deviated interests of a whole society*, and as such cannot be viewed purely inside the otaku sphere.
(This is just so I don't seem to make baseless statements)
*BBC Three, director. Sex for Sale in Japan. BBC Three, BBC, 28 Feb. 2017
Miyake, Kyoko, director. Tokyo Idols. Netflix, BBC, 2017.
Acadimia, Khyrsten. “Human Trafficking in Japan Through the Use of Schoolgirls.”
https://scholarworks.bgsu.edu/irj/vol5/iss1/5/
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Finally I want to note that I am still not entirely sure how the first sense should be glossed. I think in general the gloss "lolicon" does not provide much value to the overall entry and could maybe be replaced with something more specific or detailed.
Also, if you have anything you wish to add to the second sense, you might as well suggest it.
This will be it from me for now, unless further discussion takes place.
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Comments: |
I removed the "internet" from the sense note since otaku clearly isn't just an online phenomenon.
Also, if the new entry eventually reaches a functional state, entries such as the one for ロリ would need to be aligned. |
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Diff: |
@@ -18 +18 @@
-<s_inf>usu. in otaku internet subculture</s_inf>
+<s_inf>usu. in otaku subculture</s_inf> |
| 47. |
A* 2025-02-14 01:40:13
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Comments: |
Thank you for the apology and I understand your initial gut response. Thank you furthermore for being willing to put your emotions aside to try and listen and understand my point of view. It is a touchy subject, especially in the West, and most people disengage with it immediately. I understand why the average person thinks the way they do. It is a completely intuitive logical deduction and is why psychologists thought to study lolicons in the first place: hoping to gain insight into the minds of pedophiles to better understand pedophilia. I'm sure even the researchers were surprised to find there was any difference!
Lolicon in Japan is lolicon in the West but it is a word only Western anime fans would know. Many otaku-slang words are becoming popularized in the West among the anime/manga community in recent years. Even the once niche "mesugaki" has become a well-known, but not *quite* mainstream yet, word due to the massive popularity of mesugaki trope songs such as "Loli Requiem" and "Mimukauwa Nice Try". Like lolicon, the "mesugaki" subtrope is also entirely missing from the Western world so is seen as far more sexual and pedophilic in the West than in Japan where even characters like サンゴ from Pokémon (a young children's show) are often referred to as mesugaki. So I understand the type of sexuality that you are talking about that is not as stigmatized in Japan the way it is in the West.
I also agree that lolicon has two meanings: The first being the layperson's sense that it is pedophilia. I can agree it is still a dictionary's responsibility to report that meaning. The second is the Anime Otaku sense. The problem is getting people to listen to someone they believe to be a pedophile saying things like "I like the anthropomorphization of 'cuteness' actually and not the little girl". I will admit that it totally sounds like a pedophile trying to make an excuse as to why they aren't "technically" a pedophile. I get it. If it weren't for the decades of research supporting that this distinction in fact exists I probably wouldn't even try to defend it.
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> Also problematic is the fact that this cuteness seems to (from what I've seen so far) very often go together with a (sexual) affection.
I can explain this! The sexual attraction is to the cuteness itself. It is one and the same and is why you see it so often together.
The "cuteness" I speak of is not "cute like a kitten" but rather "cute like only an anime character can be". It does not exist in real life and exists only in fantasy. The style of anime/manga art further exemplifies it. This is why lolicons are mostly attracted to the anime/manga-style art instead of Western cartoon styles or more realistic depictions of little girls. The anime style exudes this special kind of "cute" that does not exist in reality. For an example that you can hopefully relate to, "tsundere"-type characters are cute in anime fantasy but would be insufferable people in reality. The type of "cute" that tsundere-type characters exhibit is not a type of cute that actually exists in reality! It doesn't translate.
This is as best as I can describe it to someone who doesn't also share the feeling. I'll admit it's a little more complex than this. Lolicons see a part of themselves and identify with this "cuteness" in a very similar way that the furry community see a part of themselves and identifies with their "fursonas".
------------------------------
I think I can find the changes you made agreeable in that it better separates the Otaku sense. I do not have experience editing the Jmdict so will leave it to those with more experience as to any further changes. But it is much closer to the right direction. |
| 46. |
A* 2025-02-13 20:37:27 Sombrero1 <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
Firstly, I am sorry if I was being too rash in my first response. I have a rather strong opinion on this topic (from a western perspective) so I may have been influenced by it. I'll keep my opinion out of this first part.
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I can see the point you're making. This "concept" is a purely Japanese thing. There is no translational equivalent nor a similar concept in western culture I would argue. Over its history, Japan has seems to never have had an outspoken negative stance on (I'm not gonna call it pedophilia) sexuality and the underage (underage in western culture). Thus it doesn't seem to be an option to gloss "lolicon" as "male pedophilia". This association (especially with "otaku") was largely spread by the Miyazaki incident, as Galbraith discusses in two of his papers.
Furthermore pedophilia is a mental disorder classified in the DSM-5 and ICD-11, so it is far heavier of a term.
The following article substantiates the fact that an incriminating mental disorder cannot be given as a gloss to a term, that refers to fictional creations
(dan kanemitsu is a native japanese manga translator):
https://dankanemitsu.wordpress.com/2010/12/05/bill-156-the-nonexistent-crimes-bill-fujimotos-analysis-translated/
Also galbraith: " From a legal standpoint, no identifiable minor is involved in the production of lolicon and no physical harm is done. There is no evidence to support the claim that the existence of lolicon, or engagement with such content, encourages “cognitive distortions” or criminal acts."
On top of that there seems to have been a bit of a splitting as "lolicon" got attributed a connotation in Japan, different to the original meaning of "lolita complex". The question then remains whether lolicon has two meanings (to which I would argue yes).
https://dankanemitsu.wordpress.com/2022/12/08/translating-lolicon/
"It’s important to note that the Japanese language does have words that invoke strong negative connotation that could be used to denote the criminal and/or exploitative dimension of a relationship between minors and adults. ペドフィリア (pedophilia) or ペド (pedo) is used in Japan. So is 小児性愛 (shouniseai) and 児童性愛 (jidou seiai.)"
> It's a question about moral values and to what degree a dictionary is responsible for people citing its definitions to incite harassment for something that psychologists say isn't true despite being a commonly held belief by laypersons.
Concluding this section, I agree that there is a responsibility here as to not lable this as "pedophilia", as there are no legal grounds for this. From a dictionary point of view however, the meaning of a given word is attributed to it by its users, not entirely necessarly by experts saying "the word means this".
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I see how theoretically and legally lolicon cannot be equated with pedophilia.
I however still have a problem with removing the sexual aspect from this entry. As galbraith explains in his paper "Lolicon: The reality of ‘virtual child pornography’in Japan", this term has been accompanied by sexualized illustrations and fictional creations of minors, or characters intentionally drawn in a way to remind one of a child.
He also provides evidence for this in form of images from so called "lolicon magazines" that existed in the past, which I am not to fond of having seen now.
In general I do believe you in saying that actual psychological "lolicon" phenomenon refers to the infatuation with the childlikeness and cuteness of these fictional characters. As the care-freeness perpetuated by these works is often seen as a soothing.
But the word "lolicon" has also become widely used to refer to "sexual material containing prebubescent or child("""like""") characters", and even if this is not the original meaning or the meaning corroborated by the experts you give, and I don't want to discredit their work, it is a dictionaries duty to pick up that usage and incorporate it into the senses of a given word, and this is widely reflected in the monolingual dictionaries all referring to "sexual desire".
And I don't mean to start the discussion of "when is it a child", I know that I can only say my opinion in that case and there is no way to actually draw a line with a reasonable argument.
Also problematic is the fact that this cuteness seems to (from what I've seen so far) very often go together with a (sexual) affection.
From "The Costs of Lolicon: Japan’s Pedophilia Trade" by Megan Sluzhevsky:
"Galbraith goes on to say that the rise of this subgenre grew as more adult male fans of
shojo manga began to produce self-published manga works, called doujinshi. Many of the
characters seen within popular doujinshi artworks displayed the aesthetic of kawaii eroticism,
with more simplified art styles representing young girls. The popularity of this genre flooded the
anime and manga industry during the 1980s, sometimes referred to as a “lolicon boom,” which
only continued into the 1990s and 2000s. A smaller boom in the early 2000s is attributed to the
creation of the erotic magazine Comic LO. The LO in the magazine’s title stands for “lolita
only.” Published by Akane Shinsha since 2002, this manga features sexually explicit images of
illustrated children. One of the magazine’s artists, Amagappa Shojogun, stated in a tweet that he
was ironically told to draw characters around the age of nine, as the previous images he had
drawn with girls around the age of eight were too young looking (Nagayama, 111). "
This is just further evidence of this word being used in reference to cuteness AND sexualisation.
Also Sluzhevsky:
"Sex sells, and for this reason lolicon imagery is still often used in advertising. It is also
common to see young anime girls in hentai (animated) pornography. Many lolicon artists do not
attempt to hide that these girls are depictions of children. While some fans may claim they are
ageless as they are nothing more than drawings, much of the pornography featuring these loli
characters openly refer to the girls as elementary or middle-school students and even opt to
include them in the actual school uniforms."
And I don't think I have to point out the gargantuan amount of "lolicon pornography" freely available on the internet, contributing further to the coining of this word (this however links back again to the "western view" problem as this isn't viewed critically in Japan, so I realise this is barely an argument).
I changed the entry a bit in an attempt to incorporate more of what you've said and of what I've just read. I'll probably also look at the other studies you've referenced in an attempt for us to be on the same page. But it is getting late for me today so that's all I'll say today. I currently don't have a good solution to this in mind. Maybe someone else does?
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https://research.library.fordham.edu/international_senior/96/
This is an excellent paper laying out the history of Japan's questionable history in this regard, and largely reflects my opinion on this.
This may also show why I am against removing the sexual aspect from this entry, as this is the only side or meaning of "lolicon" I've ever encountered on the internet.
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Comments: |
Lastly I am not an editor on JMdict, nor have I spent years working in lexicography. Neither am I a native japanese person. So take all of this with a grain of salt. |
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@@ -13,3 +13 @@
-<gloss>sexual attraction to prepubescent girls</gloss>
-<gloss>male pedophile</gloss>
-<gloss>male pedophilia</gloss>
+<gloss>(sexual) attraction to prepubescent girls</gloss>
@@ -19,2 +17,4 @@
-<s_inf>oft. used in otaku internet subculture</s_inf>
-<gloss>appeal for young or prebubescent female characters in japanese fictional works (usu. in respect to cuteness)</gloss>
+<misc>&fict;</misc>
+<s_inf>usu. in otaku internet subculture</s_inf>
+<gloss>appeal for the cuteness of young or prebubescent female characters in japanese fictional works</gloss>
+<gloss>fictional characters permeating a young, childlike and carefree aesthetic</gloss> |
| 45. |
A* 2025-02-13 16:03:04
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Refs: |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamaki_Saitō
https://kamikazestyle.com/category/character/ |
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Comments: |
> the problem really is that you're arguing for what the english word 'lolicon' means in the english-language world and not what the japanese word ロリコン means in the japanese-language world
The research I mention is Japanese psychologists talking about the type of attraction Japanese people feel in a Japanese context in Japanese universities while studying Japanese lolicons. I'm not sure how to get more "Japanese-language world" than that.
I am asking if a dictionary has any responsibility to point out when the general layperson's understanding of a word is inaccurate according to subject matter experts. Or whether it has any duty to try and reduce harm when its definitions are being used to incite harassment, doxing, and death threats.
It's a question about moral values and to what degree a dictionary is responsible for people citing its definitions to incite harassment for something that psychologists say isn't true despite being a commonly held belief by laypersons. |
| 44. |
A* 2025-02-13 12:39:18 Sombrero1 <...address hidden...>
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I think it essentially boils down to "the problem really is that you're arguing for what the english word 'lolicon' means in the english-language world and not what the japanese word ロリコン means in the japanese-language world" as anonymous (and previously also parfait8) have said. Or as to how this word became integrated by, and came to be used on the internet.
However the argument made by the prior anonymous user isn't invalid either, and is meaningfully substantiated at that. So I by no means intend to devalue it.
To me personally it isn't really up to debate to exclude the "(often sexual) attraction/fixation for/on prepubescent/(very) young females/girls" sense. Marcus has lengthily corroborated said sense, and it is not feasible for ~10 different japanese monolingual dictionaries to totally miss the mark on defining a given term, especially for one that hasn't just sprung into existence in the last 5 years.
At the same time the word "loli(con)" has spread far beyond the Japanese realm into the western sphere, as even someone like me who only occasionally reads some manga or watches a few select episodes of anime has been reached by this word.
So a second, otaku-specific sense might solve this issue as this seems to be a discussion largely held in the online world.
The question would then be, how to tag the second sense? There is no otaku tag and I don't think something like that has any merit in being added.
There exists "net-slang" and "fiction" as examples. You could also circumvent this issue by adding a sense note.
I would provisionally add the second sense and kindly ask for suggestions on this matter. Though I suggest the first sense to stay first.
There are no tags on the entry yet because I'd see some more opinions on the "two-sense-split". The "net-slang" tag might very well be fitting though.
And also reinstate the "male pedophilia" as the third gloss for the first sense as by Marcus' arguments in the past.
Translated entry from the Jitsuyou monolingual dictionary, as it often gives very lengthy and detailed explanations:
What is 「ロリコン」? / The Meaning of 「ロリコン」
「ロリコン」 is an abbreviation of 「ロリータコンプレックス」. The term 「ロリータコンプレックス」 is a Japanese-made English phrase combining "Lolita" and "Complex." The word 「ロリコン」 began to be used in the 1970s, and in the 1980s, it spread rapidly, leading to a 「ロリコン」 boom. In its early days, the term 「ロリコン」 had little sexual connotation, but over time, it evolved to refer to people who have a sexual preference for young girls. By the 1980s, numerous manga and photo collections depicting young girls sexually began to be published.
During the 「ロリコン」 boom, some individuals openly identified as 「ロリコン」, but in most cases, this referred to an emotional admiration for young girls rather than a sexual attraction. Until the early 1990s, the scope of 「ロリコン」 was generally understood as referring to individuals who were sexually attracted to females under 18. For example, in the movie Lupin the Third: The Castle of Cagliostro, the term 「ロリコン」 is used in a scene where romantic feelings with a sexual implication are directed toward a high-teen girl. Even today, the term 「ロリコン」 can be used to describe individuals attracted to females under 18, but in reality, its definition shifted in the late 1990s.
「ロリコン」 came to be used primarily to refer to individuals who are sexually attracted to preteen girls. Around this time, the term also began to be used for individuals who are not interested in real young girls but instead prefer preteen characters in manga and anime. The young girls preferred by 「ロリコン」 in manga and anime are often called 「ロリキャラ」. There are numerous works featuring such characters, but Japan imposes strict regulations on media targeted at 「ロリコン」.
Regulation and Social Perception
Regulatory efforts actually began in the 1980s, with criticism directed at PC games and manga aimed at 「ロリコン」. In 1985, a magazine specializing in Lolita content was raided. The 1999 Act on Prohibition of Child Prostitution and Child Pornography made it illegal to publish sexual photo collections of real young girls. However, discussions about regulating manga, anime, and games aimed at 「ロリコン」 continue, balancing between regulation and freedom of expression.
A term often confused with 「ロリコン」 is 「シスコン」. 「シスコン」 refers to a person who has strong attachment or affection toward their sister and has an entirely different meaning from 「ロリコン」.
Related Terms and Concepts
「ロリコン文化」
「ロリコン文化」 refers to a societal tendency to treat young girls as precious or admirable. Japan, in particular, is often said to have a 「ロリコン文化」 on a global scale. For example, there is a wide variety of clothing in the so-called "Lolita fashion" style, and dedicated fashion magazines exist for it. Young female idols in their early teens are also popular, with many groups actively performing in the media.
「ロリータコンプレックス」
「ロリータコンプレックス」 refers to romantic feelings toward young girls. In this context, "Lolita" originates from the title of the novel by Russian-American author Vladimir Nabokov, published in 1955. The story follows a 36-year-old protagonist who falls in love with a 12-year-old girl, whose nickname is "Lolita."
"Complex" refers to a state where various emotions, desires, or impulses are intertwined and can be used similarly to "inferiority complex."
There is no clear answer to the question of how young a girl must be for someone to be considered as having 「ロリータコンプレックス」. However, in psychiatry, "pedophilia" (ペドフィリア) is defined as a sexual preference for individuals aged 13 and under. As a result, 「ロリータコンプレックス」 is generally used to describe romantic feelings directed toward girls aged 13 or younger. |
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@@ -13,0 +14,7 @@
+<gloss>male pedophile</gloss>
+<gloss>male pedophilia</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<s_inf>oft. used in otaku internet subculture</s_inf>
+<gloss>appeal for young or prebubescent female characters in japanese fictional works (usu. in respect to cuteness)</gloss> |
| 43. |
A* 2025-02-13 10:46:21
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Refs: |
wiktionary (ja) |
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Comments: |
the problem really is that you're arguing for what the english word 'lolicon' means in the english-language world and not what the japanese word ロリコン means in the japanese-language world
the japanese word ロリコン in my experience means attraction to young girls, or a person attracted to such girls, whether anime or real. I have heard (otaku) females use that word of themselves when they find a young girl particularly cute. it is not always sexual attraction as far as I can tell.
the kokugos are a bit mum on the subject, but the japanese wiktionary has a definition that largely matches my thought, and is probably the most authoritative dictionary source available here. notably, it does not treat this as an abbreviation, even while other kokugos do.
I would be in favour of removing the english word 'lolicon' from the glosses at least. just because a word is derivative of the japanese word does not mean it is necessarily a suitable translation for it.
I recommend the following sort of entry per wiktionary:
ロリコン (n) (See ロリータコンプレックス) sexual attraction to prepubescent girls; person sexually attracted to prepubescent girls
("prepubescent" may be changed to "young" and "sexual" can be put into parens too)
[this is my first comment on this entry, fwiw] |
| 42. |
A* 2025-02-13 08:46:41
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Refs: |
[1] https://x.com/ChibiReviews/status/1889778814458229054 |
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Comments: |
I am once requesting more for a distinction to be made for the otaku-slang. This will be my last comment on the matter unless requested for further comment. I am appealing to your academic side to not let an anti-Scientific definition continue to propagate simply because that is how the word is used by laypersons. Even noting that the definition of pedophilia may be used in casual speech but is not actually backed academically by any research would help.
It is a matter of importance to me and I understand you're probably frustrated with the constant bickering over this word's definition. I concede it is clearly used in those articles to implicate pedophilia and it is a dictionary's job to define words as they are used. I also agree with Marcus's reasoning for why the definition is what it is because the word is used that way casually. But I would hope there is a responsibility in not perpetuating the misunderstanding that lolicon is pedophili despite what laypersons may think.
If any dictionary ever defined "vaccines" as "a harmful injection that causes autism" because a sizable number of laypersons and right-wing news articles used it that way I would certainly hope to see it corrected or at least noted as being scientifically inaccurate rather than helping to perpetuate misinformation. This is how I feel about the current definition of lolicon. Lolicon is a researched topic by professionals in psychology, sexology, criminology, and anthropology. Most studies echo the same thing: lolicon is a distinct attraction separate from pedophilia. Pedophilia is something that is diagnosed by psychologists. Psychologists are also the ones saying lolicon is not pedophilia.
Since the inclusion of male pedophilia in the definition, with JMdictDB being one of the most used sources for JP-EN dictionaries, targeted harassment has increased against lolicons. They use this definition as justification for their harassment because no distinction is made between the otaku-slang meaning of the word and the layperson usage of the word. This harassment has resulted in doxing of lolicons and most recently culminated in a death threat [1] that is now resulting in legal action being taken. It helps perpetuate the myth that lolicons are attracted to the child depicted and not the aesthetic of cuteness that lolicons are found to actually be drawn to. The appeal is commonly understood by experts to be an attraction to anthropomorphized cuteness; not children.
The most common attacking argument used against lolicons is a citation of Jisho.org which itself pulls definition from JMdictDB. Clarifying that the otaku-slang is commonly understood to not be pedophilia by psychologists & other researchers would help alleviate at least some of the harassment it has caused since being added.
It is a mistake to think you are calling a spade a spade. Sorry but that's just the facts. Just because you might see a child does not mean that I do and accusing me of lying to "pretend I'm not a pedophile" is, again, not backed by any actual research on lolicons or pedophilia itself. If I am lying then so are all of the subject matter experts who have studied lolicons and pedophiles. I'm sure you'd be as irritated as lolicons are if you were constantly harassed, doxxed, and receiving death threats over a dictionary spreading misinformation because uninformed people use a word to mean something that it actually isn't. It isn't an attraction for "cartoon children" either because most lolicons are not attracted to cartoon children from Western cartoons. The anime/manga-style of moe is central to the attraction itself because it is not an attraction for children but for a specific aesthetic of cuteness.
"Studies of lolicon fans find that they are attracted to an aesthetic of cuteness rather than the age of the characters."
Galbraith 2016: "Characters are not compensating for something more 'real', but are rather are in their fiction the object of affection. This has been described as 'finding sexual objects in fiction in itself', which in discussions of lolicon is made explicitly distinct from desire for and abuse of children."
McLelland 2010: "Characters do not necessarily represent real boys or girls but rather a 'third gender'"
McLelland 2011: "Neither Loli nor the BL [boy's love] fandom represent the interests of paedophiles since moe characters are not objectified in the same manner that actual images of children can be, rather they express aspects of their creators' or consumers' own identifies"
Yukari Fujimoto, Professor of global Japanese studies at Meiji University: "Lolicon desire is 'not for a child, but the image itself'."
Kaoru Nagayama: "Such an orientation comes from growing up with manga and anime and becoming attracted to manga/anime-style, cute, cartoony characters."
Saito Tamaki: "Otaku realize that the object of desire is fiction, and desire it precisel because it is fiction."
It shouldn't have become lolicons' problem to deal with constant harassment and death threats because other people are incapable of making a distinction between anime characters and children. This dictionary is the #1 source of people justifying their attacks against lolicons. I do not think changing it will necessarily stop the attacks but making a distinction will make it harder for them to justify their harassment. |
| 41. |
A 2025-02-10 23:49:28 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Let's just leave this for now. |
| 40. |
A* 2025-02-02 23:41:57 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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| 39. |
A 2025-02-02 23:41:27 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Parfait8 wrote: "i agree that a new [m-sl] (manga slang or generally otaku slang) sense would be useful here".
What I will do is drop my suggested sense, close the edit string and reopen for further discussion and, if agreed, a second sense.
I'm rather tired of it. |
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Diff: |
@@ -15,5 +14,0 @@
-<sense>
-<pos>&n;</pos>
-<misc>&m-sl;</misc>
-<gloss>genre of popular fiction involving young girls in erotic settings</gloss>
-</sense> |
| 38. |
A* 2025-02-01 07:18:12
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Comments: |
I don't think it's used as a genre in Japanese at all. It's just like putting "hentai" to the 変態 entry. Any sources?
Also the "prepubescent" wording might be a bit too specific that it might not cover "JS" or "JC", isn't it? |
| 37. |
A* 2025-02-01 05:41:29 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Perhaps this? |
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Diff: |
@@ -14,0 +15,5 @@
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<misc>&m-sl;</misc>
+<gloss>genre of popular fiction involving young girls in erotic settings</gloss>
+</sense> |
| 36. |
A* 2025-01-31 18:28:15 parfait8
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Comments: |
>It isn't used this way in Japanese, it isn't understood to mean this in Japanese
if you scroll down, you'll see that plenty of news articles describing real life pedophiles were mentioned in 2021
here are some more recent ones i found:
https://times.abema.tv/articles/-/10150148
https://forzastyle.com/articles/-/73576
https://news.yahoo.co.jp/expert/articles/a4cf148432272ec63cf342ec93c527386cb2bb08
all kokugos also use the "real life pedophile" definition, it's very clearly associated with ロリコン
>Lolicon is distinct from pedophilia as proven by nearly every study done on the matter for the past 40 years
what you're describing here as "lolicon" is the genre within otaku culture (the vastly more popular usage in the west)
of course it's distinct from pedophilia in the sense that it's a *type* of pedophilia, focused on fictional children
i agree that a new [m-sl] (manga slang or generally otaku slang) sense would be useful here |
| 35. |
A* 2025-01-31 15:57:26
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Refs: |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolicon
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ロリータ・コンプレックス
https://www.imageandnarrative.be/index.php/imagenarrative/article/view/127
https://archive.org/details/RobotGhostsAndWiredDreamsJapaneseScienceFictionFromOriginsToAnime/page/n243/mode/2up |
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Comments: |
Lolicon is distinct from pedophilia as proven by nearly every study done on the matter for the past 40 years (see especially Galbraith (2011)). The "shotacon" dictionary entry does not include any references to pedophilia and the bit about "male pedophile" is inaccurate (women make up a large percentage of lolicons) and I have never heard it used in place of the loanword pedophile or the Japanese word 小児性愛者. Japanese people understand the distinction between fantasy and reality and do not consider lolicon to be pedophilia. It is simply not an accurate definition and keeps getting cited as if it were because Google Translate has a user-suggested definition of "pedophile" as well.
There is no source that backs up this definition or claim. It isn't used this way in Japanese, it isn't understood to mean this in Japanese, there are no studies showing that lolicon is pedophilia and all studies point to the contrary: that it is entirely distinct from pedophilia. |
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Diff: |
@@ -14,2 +13,0 @@
-<gloss>male pedophile</gloss>
-<gloss>male pedophilia</gloss> |
| 34. |
A 2025-01-29 02:31:49 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Quiet. |
| 33. |
A* 2025-01-26 04:16:34 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Opening for a short period. |
| 32. |
A 2025-01-26 04:13:55 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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I agree. I'm putting it back to the way it was. If resubmitting, include a case for the changes. |
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Diff: |
@@ -13 +13,3 @@
-<gloss>sexual attraction to young-looking girl characters</gloss>
+<gloss>sexual attraction to prepubescent girls</gloss>
+<gloss>male pedophile</gloss>
+<gloss>male pedophilia</gloss> |
| 31. |
A* 2025-01-25 21:36:25 Sombrero1 <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
I think given the huge amount of discussion below centered around exactly the edit you just proposed, there needs to be some form of argument to base it on. |
| 30. |
A* 2025-01-25 20:22:03
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Diff: |
@@ -13,3 +13 @@
-<gloss>sexual attraction to prepubescent girls</gloss>
-<gloss>male pedophile</gloss>
-<gloss>male pedophilia</gloss>
+<gloss>sexual attraction to young-looking girl characters</gloss> |
| 29. |
A 2024-10-11 01:22:21 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
The "used self-referentially" note is mainly just to try and show there's a small distinction between this word and other words that mean "pedophile." I'm not sure exactly how common it is so I'm fine with "downgrading" it to "occasionally". I also want to add I think it would be helpful if you didn't just state "It is like X, not like Y" but instead attempted to show examples or sources proving your point, esp. as you're contributing anonymously and can't refer to any proven track record (even though I'm guessing you are "parfait8566" on github and quite involved in contributing to the project. On that note, please consider contributing here as well with a handle).
If there's going to be a 2nd sense, I would like to see a much better source than English Wikipedia for it. The Japanese dictionaries don't have this sense. I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong but I think we too can live without it. |
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Diff: |
@@ -11 +11 @@
-<s_inf>oft. used self-referentially</s_inf>
+<s_inf>occ. used self-referentially</s_inf>
@@ -16,4 +15,0 @@
-</sense>
-<sense>
-<pos>&n;</pos>
-<gloss>genre of fictional media which focuses on young or young-looking female characters, particularly in a sexually suggestive or erotic manner</gloss> |
| 28. |
A* 2024-10-11 00:48:53 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Adding the suggested second sense.
Re the comments on the note on sense 1, I am happy to leave it there, especially if Marcus doesn't want it changed. |
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Diff: |
@@ -15,0 +16,4 @@
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<gloss>genre of fictional media which focuses on young or young-looking female characters, particularly in a sexually suggestive or erotic manner</gloss> |
| 27. |
A* 2024-10-07 23:10:15
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Comments: |
i noticed the english wikipedia has this:
"In Japanese popular culture, lolicon (ロリコン, rorikon) is a genre of fictional media which focuses on young (or young-looking) girl characters, particularly in a sexually suggestive or erotic manner. The term, a portmanteau of the English-language phrase "Lolita complex", also refers to desire and affection for such characters (ロリ, "loli"), and their fans. "
maybe useful as a second sense? |
| 26. |
A* 2024-10-07 23:01:45
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Comments: |
i don't think the note is needed or true (sometimes at most, def not "often") |
| 25. |
A 2023-10-22 20:43:50 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Agree. |
| 24. |
A 2023-10-22 13:31:01 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
mk (特に中年男性が)
nikk 男性が、 |
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Comments: |
I don't mind "attraction" over "obsession" or "prebubescent" over "young" but I'm not seeing the point of adding rare words like "gynephilic" to secondary glosses (as this meaning is already obvious from the second gloss). It's true a woman could flippantly call herself a "lolicon" despite not being a man but that's true for a lot of gendered language/words and without qualifiers, I don't think anybody would ever assume this word refers to anything but a man. |
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Diff: |
@@ -14,2 +14,2 @@
-<gloss>(esp. male) gynephilic pedophile</gloss>
-<gloss>(esp. male) gynephilic pedophilia</gloss>
+<gloss>male pedophile</gloss>
+<gloss>male pedophilia</gloss> |
| 23. |
A* 2023-10-12 01:10:05
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Refs: |
senkoku, daijr, iwanami |
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Comments: |
sexual obsession doesn't make much sense, kokugos tend to use 性愛の対象 which is closer to sexual attraction
using "young girls" (or "very young girls" by gg5) seems pretty euphemistic, kokugos do use 少女 which is ambiguous but nobody would use ロリコン for someone attracted to a 17yo girl. + they often do add 幼女 to be more clear, so prepubescent is a better rendering in my opinion.
"gynephilic" (or a synonym) is needed because "pedophile" alone implies that ロリコン could be someone sexually attracted to prepubescent boys as well which is not the case.
i guess "esp. male" is the most controversial change. i think this image of ロリコン is due to the male-dominated otaku culture (and most pedophiles being male). it's fair to include it, but it doesn't seem *necessary* to be a ロリコン which is probably why many kokugos don't mention it all. |
| 22. |
A* 2023-10-12 00:27:06 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Given the extensive discussion last year about edits to this entry, I think case should be made for these proposed changes. Justification for the inclusion of gynephilic is needed. |
| 21. |
A* 2023-10-11 16:00:33
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Diff: |
@@ -10 +9,0 @@
-<xref type="see" seq="1148090">ロリータコンプレックス</xref>
@@ -14,3 +13,3 @@
-<gloss>sexual obsession with young girls</gloss>
-<gloss>male pedophile</gloss>
-<gloss>male pedophilia</gloss>
+<gloss>sexual attraction to prepubescent girls</gloss>
+<gloss>(esp. male) gynephilic pedophile</gloss>
+<gloss>(esp. male) gynephilic pedophilia</gloss> |
| 20. |
A 2022-07-08 21:24:20 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
I'll align the ロリータコンプレックス and ロリ glosses. |
| 19. |
A 2022-07-07 13:25:00 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
I don't mind it.
I asked a native speaker btw what they thought and they said （ことばとして）軽いじゃ軽いけど、ペドファイルじゃペドファイル。 I don't think they're actually considered two different things to most Japanese (outside of the otaku realm), but it might certainly be the case that there's a weaker connotation of "actual child molester" than there is for say ペドファイル. |
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Diff: |
@@ -12,0 +13 @@
+<gloss>sexual obsession with young girls</gloss> |
| 18. |
A* 2022-07-07 12:42:18 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
GG5: 〔その男性〕 a man attracted to very young girls.
●あいつはロリコンだ. He's into very young girls. | He has a thing for very young girls.
中辞典: a sexual obsession with young girls; a “Lolita complex”.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia |
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Comments: |
I'll accept that pedophile/pedophilia are probably accurate glosses, but I note that the JEs avoid that term. I suspect that in Japan there is a view that lolicon and pedophilia are slightly different things, but if you look at the actual definition of pedophilia, they are really the same.
Is there a problem with including "sexual obsession with young girls" in the glosses? |
| 17. |
A* 2022-07-07 02:16:45 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
I sometimes check twitter for mentions of jmdict/jisho and I've noticed that this entry frequently comes up for discussion. It's apparent there's a sizable contingent of anime/manga fans who are into "lolicon content" that are adamant that being sexually attracted to prepubescent girls is a completely different thing from pedophilia. I don't know anything about Kevin in particular and am certainly not accusing him of anything, but I think we need to be aware there are a lot of people online who are very strongly opposed to "ロリコン" being defined as "pedophile" solely because it makes them feel personally attacked. Here's an example of a recent (June 24) Twitter thread where you can see how this usually plays out: https://twitter.com/COEofTypo/status/1539386476537970689 (there's a lot of replies but here's one that leads into this discussion of our definition as it appeared at the time on Jisho: https://twitter.com/ElFazendobarra/status/1539858524548632576 )
The argument that people on Twitter are making (that it seems Kevin is similarly arguing for) is that "ロリコン" should not be translated as "pedophile" because there are other words in Japanese that are also translated as "pedophilia/pedophile" and there is a distinction between those words (ペドフィリア/小児性愛 etc.) and ロリコン. While this is no doubt true, that it's only ロリコン that is used self-referentially, this doesn't mean that glosses like "male pedophile" or "male pedophilia" don't also belong here. We are not only concerned with getting the nuance right but also conveying the actual meaning of the word. Kevin changed "male pedophilia" to "sexual attraction to young girls" and "male pedophile" to "male with such an attraction", but are these really closer in nuance and meaning to ロリコン or just wordier and wafflier ways of saying the exact same things? That's a rhetorical question - it's obvious to me its the latter. It's hairsplitting. Look up the definitions of "pedophile" and "pedophilia" in any English dictionary. Notice also that ALL the kokugo definitions for ロリコン mention "性欲" - that an otaku-dominated wiki site like pixiv disagrees ("特別な感情" is what they call it) seems entirely irrelevant to me. This isn't a case of "Western bias", it's a case of looking at reliable sources instead of user-generated content.
I agree that "lolicon" rather than "male pedophile" should lead, for nuance etc. reasons, but that word will be meaningless to a lot of people, so we need to also include glosses that pithily explain what this actually means. We always strive for the most economical definitions so why exactly is it that we shouldn't call a spade a spade here?
Another point about the other reference Kevin posted is a blog post written by a person calling himself "初老のオタ" and the argument he is making is that ロリコン IS in fact used to refer to male pedophiles/pedophilia in Japanese media but that he finds this usage "wrong" because he has personally somewhat convolutedly decided that a "ロリコン" is somebody who is "sexually or romantically attracted to underage girls but doesn't necessarily want to act on it in real life" and that a ペド on the other hand is somebody whose "ultimate purpose" (最終目的) is to have sex with underage girls:
"ロリコン、ペド、チャイルド・マレスター……
これらの違いが曖昧な日本ならではの報道だなぁと。
...
少女・幼女に対し性的嗜好や恋愛感情を持つ事で、
最終的目標が性交の有無であるか否かは関係ありません。
...
●ロリは必ずしも性交を最終目的とはしておらず、
ペドは性交を最終目的としている。"
We should really not be concerned with what "otaku purists" consider the correct use of the word (which by the way still would translate into "male pedophile" in English) but with how it's actually used in mainstream Japanese society. For more on that, see the multiple links I've previously posted. |
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Diff: |
@@ -10,0 +11 @@
+<s_inf>oft. used self-referentially</s_inf>
@@ -12,2 +13,2 @@
-<gloss>(often sexual) attraction to young girls</gloss>
-<gloss>male (sexually) attracted to young girls</gloss>
+<gloss>male pedophile</gloss>
+<gloss>male pedophilia</gloss> |
| 16. |
A 2022-07-05 01:23:33 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
I missed this, apologies. Kevin, welcome to JMDict. We always appreciate input on definitions but the multiple accusations of "cultural ignorance", "Western bias", "chauvinism", "strangeness" and "glibness" are not at all appropriate and if you wish to continue participating in the discussion on how we should define this word, I would hope you would afford other editors more respect than you've done so far. I've changed "male with _such_ an attraction" to "male (sexually) attracted to young girls" because style-wise, we try to avoid glosses that explicitly refer to previous ones. I don't have time right now but I will try and revisit this at a later date as I'm not sure I fully agree with the changes made. |
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Diff: |
@@ -13 +13 @@
-<gloss>a male with such an attraction</gloss>
+<gloss>male (sexually) attracted to young girls</gloss> |
| 15. |
A 2022-07-04 23:48:37 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Hmm. I guess this covers Marcus' view on "male pedophile" and "male pedophilia" references. |
| 14. |
A* 2022-06-30 22:23:15 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Kevin's case and amendments seem sound but I'd like to see Marcus's response before approving. |
| 13. |
A* 2022-06-30 16:24:22 Kevin Johnson
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Refs: |
日本の場合、ロリコンとペドフィリアが混同され、日常語としての「ペドフィリア」は、ロリコンに比べて病的・犯罪的ニュアンスを伴って使用される場合が多い。(wiki)
現在では幼い少女を性的に好んでいる人のことを指して使われることが多いが、本来ロリータ・コンプレックスとは性的な意味合いは薄く、（異性愛の）女性がロリータ・コンプレックスであるということも大いにありえる。本来は対象は「美」少女に限らない。(pixiv)
https://dic.pixiv.net/a/ロリコン
A whole blog post on the subject:
http://yamatoasuka02.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-762.html?sp
Video series on the topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=lETPaGnl2aI&ab_channel=PauseandSelect |
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Comments: |
Many of the references given by others below, despite their intentions, clearly imply a distinction between the concepts of lolicon and pedophilia. Some of them, such as the Wiki quote, literally state that they are different concepts. Despite this, this same reference was somehow used to justify including the gloss of "pedophile"? Truly strange, and obviously Western bias.
The pixiv article clearly states that lolicon is not necessarily sexual, which is not something that can be said about the different concept of pedophilia. Indeed, the very fact that "pedophilia" has entered the Japanese lexicon in katakana implies a core difference.
The blog article I provide underscores the fact that this is, at best, a debated topic. The current entry glibly sides with one side of this "debate" in a way that is unscholarly. Japan has a big cultural preference for the young and 未熟, and understanding that at a deep level is essential to understanding why it's inappropriate to glibly label lolicon to be pedophilia.
Honestly, they are quite obviously similar but different concepts, and it's culturally ignorant and chauvinistic to include this gloss. |
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Diff: |
@@ -12,3 +12,2 @@
-<gloss>sexual attraction to young girls</gloss>
-<gloss>male pedophilia</gloss>
-<gloss>male pedophile</gloss>
+<gloss>(often sexual) attraction to young girls</gloss>
+<gloss>a male with such an attraction</gloss> |
| 12. |
A 2021-10-14 19:54:15 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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| 11. |
A* 2021-10-09 07:44:06 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
https://nikkan-spa.jp/1481525
小児性愛は病気なのか？人口の5％いる彼らの犯罪を防ぐには
さらに、週刊誌報道によると、「中学生時代は遊び相手といえば小さな子どもだった」「いつも小さな子にベタベタと接する」といった記事もあり、今回の事件もいわゆる「ロリコン」――小児性愛者による犯
罪で、しかも、再犯だったと見られる。
...
まず、「ロリコン」とも言われる小児性愛は“病気”なのだろうか？
this article treats ロリコン as a colloquial term for 小児性愛者/小児性愛 (pedophile/pedophilia)
https://www.kadokawa.co.jp/product/301509001364/
"幼児性愛病者（ロリコン）の魔法を完全に解くことができず、10歳の子供と18歳の大人姿の二重生活をしながら王宮に勤めるリーフィア。"
as does this one
https://www.cocolabo.me/loli-com/
"世の中には社会的に認められない欲望というものがあります。その中の一つとして割とメジャーなものが「子どもへの性的欲求」いわゆる「ロリコン」です。
精神医学的には、13歳以下の子どもへ性的欲求を持つことを「幼児性愛」（ペドフェリア）と呼びます。（参考：小児性愛障害-MSDマニュアル）"
and this one
https://www.mag2.com/p/money/1076497
"ロリコン犯罪の温床「性的同意年齢13歳」をすぐに引き上げよ。親の貧困化とSNSも要因、少年少女の性暴力被害者増加＝鈴木傾城"
https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/195397d3006e3ef705118829b4e31f779a8068eb
《少女わいせつ》前科3犯・ロリコン容疑者の卑劣な手口と、実母が涙で語る“性依存の闇”
"すでに仕事を引退し、いまは農業を営む両親。40歳近くにもなって自立せず、性犯罪を繰り返すロリコン息子についてどう考えているのか。"
"改めて翌日、自宅にいる母親を訪ねてみた。すると、
「本当にすみません……。もうどうしていいのか……。息子は完全に（性犯罪の）依存症です……」"
https://www.excite.co.jp/news/article/Tocana_201805_post_16895/
週刊誌記者によると「自宅へのガサ入れで幼児性愛者である証拠品が押収されたとの情報もある。やはりロリコンの線は消せない」という。
https://friday.kodansha.co.jp/article/10174
新潟少女殺害死体遺棄事件 「ロリコン性欲者」小林遼容疑者野放し
https://bunshun.jp/articles/-/29765
子どもへの性加害は「平均週2～3回」小児性犯罪者のすさまじい実態
「そりゃセックスもしましたよ。恋人同士ですもん。それを周りの人たちが、ぶち壊したんです。私がロリコンで、Yちゃんは被害者だといって引き離したんです。
私はそんな人達によって犯罪者にさせられました。おかしいのはどっちだっていいたいです……」
これは、12歳の少女に性加害をした49歳の男性の言葉である。
https://somec.org/activity2012.html
"「小児性愛は日本では『ロリコン』など好みの一種とされ、治療が受けにくい状況だ。治せる疾患という認識を社会が共有し、加害者をなくす道を広げるべきだ」と話す。"
https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/11ef2d546dd9c5be5d70e3a7eb861825eaed35de
3月場所中「16歳の少女」になりすまし11歳女児を…ロリコン力士の巧妙かつ卑劣な手口
https://dot.asahi.com/webdoku/2017060700082.html
ロリコン大国ニッポン 「アメリカだったら児童ポルノ扱い」
jawiki:ペドフィリア
日本の場合、ロリコンとペドフィリアが混同され、日常語としての「ペドフィリア」は、ロリコンに比べて病的・犯罪的ニュアンスを伴って使用される場合が多い。
https://www.police.pref.wakayama.lg.jp/01_anzen/syonen/kanren/index.html
児童ポルノとは、児童（18歳未満の少年。以下同じ。）を性欲の対象にした、児童のわいせつな画像(写真や動画など)のことをいいます。世間では、「ロリコン」といった呼び方で、児童ポルノを成人向けア
ダルト製品と見る風潮があります。しかしその本質は、児童に対する性犯罪・性的虐待の記録にほかなりません。
Here's a page from the Wakayama Prefectrual police explicitly saying that "lolicon" is the same thing as child pornography.
https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2019-08-09/.149914
English language discussion where a manga translator suggests "pedophile" can't be the correct translation for ロリコン because the word "ペドファイル" (a pretty rare word
in Japanese) exists. I disagree.
Daijs: "幼女・少女にのみ性欲を感じる異常心理"
Daijr: "性愛の対象を少女にのみ求める心理"
Koj: "性的対象として少女・幼女を愛すること。"
Shinjirin: "性愛の対象を少女にのみ求める心理。"
Nikk: "男性が、性愛の対象として少女に偏執すること。" |
| |
Comments: |
I think it's remiss to not include the glosses "male pedophile" and "male pedophilia". It's obvious that in Japan, this is how the word is used. |
| |
Diff: |
@@ -13 +13,2 @@
-<gloss>person attracted to young girls</gloss>
+<gloss>male pedophilia</gloss>
+<gloss>male pedophile</gloss> |
| 10. |
A 2019-08-06 01:40:13 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
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| 9. |
A* 2019-08-04 04:01:58 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
Reopen. |
| 8. |
A 2019-08-04 04:01:33 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
Perhaps this addresses Marcus' point? I'll approve and reopen. |
| |
Diff: |
@@ -12 +12 @@
-<gloss>attraction to young girls</gloss>
+<gloss>sexual attraction to young girls</gloss> |
| 7. |
A* 2019-08-03 08:10:08 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Refs: |
Chanced upon this headline just now:
少女買春ロリコン大富豪のジェフリー・エプスタイン逮
捕で新世界秩序の予定が狂う!? 陰謀の世界が大混乱…
モサドが全方位で暗躍中！ |
| 6. |
A* 2019-08-03 06:30:40 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Refs: |
daijr: 性愛の対象を少女にのみ求める心理。
nikk:男性が、性愛の対象として少女に偏執すること。
daijs: 幼女・少女にのみ性欲を感じる異常心理。 |
| |
Comments: |
I agree 1 sense is actually better, but
the previous glosses "male pedophile" and
"male sexually attracted to prepubescent
girls" align much closer with what's in
the kokugos. The new glosses on the other
hand skip out on the "性愛／性欲” part
(which is in all 3 kokugos) and on the "男
性が、” in nikk. So I don't see how that's
an improvement. |
| 5. |
A* 2019-08-02 20:35:51 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Comments: |
reopen |
| 4. |
A 2019-08-02 20:35:40 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
|
| |
Refs: |
english wikipedia |
| |
Comments: |
i don't think it's sexist, but i agree that it's too limited. also, i don't think it's two senses. we usually put the person in together with the action, etc.
i'm temp approving because i think the existing entry is clearly not right
the proposed "definition" is not appropriate for a japanese-english dictionary |
| |
Diff: |
@@ -9,7 +8,0 @@
-<misc>&abbr;</misc>
-<gloss>lolicon</gloss>
-<gloss>male pedophile</gloss>
-<gloss>male sexually attracted to prepubescent girls</gloss>
-</sense>
-<sense>
-<pos>&n;</pos>
@@ -19 +12,2 @@
-<gloss>male pedophilia</gloss>
+<gloss>attraction to young girls</gloss>
+<gloss>person attracted to young girls</gloss> |
| 3. |
A* 2019-07-28 17:54:07
|
| |
Comments: |
The definition of "lolicon" is
problematic, and I'd like to persuade you
to update it since it is misinformation
and sexist.
The definition erroneously uses the
definition of male paedophile. A
paedophile is the attraction to
prepubescent individuals, and pedophilia
is the attraction itself to prepubescent
individuals. The term "Lolita" comes from
the novel and is only about an early
adolescence girl. Lolita was depicted as
12 in the novel, and 14 in the film. 99%
of the depictions of fictional minors in
the lolicon genre have small breasts.
Prepubescent children don't have breasts.
They're flat as a board.
The shotacon entry doesn't say "female
pedophile". This is sexist because it
implies only men can have attractions to
minors. Women can be attracted to female
and/or male minors and men can be
attracted to male minors.
Here is my proposed updated definition
with better parity to shotacon:
ロリコン (lolicon) sometimes shortened to
ロリ (loli), is a Japanese slang
portmanteau of the phrase "lolita complex"
and describes an attraction to early
adolescent girls, or an individual with
such an attraction, although it has become
a blanket term to refer to any minor
attracted person/attraction to a minor.
Outside Japan, the term is used less often
with this meaning, and is used to refer to
a genre of manga and anime wherein mostly
preadolescent or early adolescent female
characters are depicted in a suggestive or
erotic manner. |
| 2. |
A 2018-04-24 02:45:07 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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| 1. |
A* 2018-04-21 13:23:27 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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| |
Refs: |
daij gg5 jawiki
Daij and jawiki say "lolita complex" is wasei. Enwiki has
no article on "lolita complex", only on "lolicon"
(interestingly, that page does not show up in Google
searches) |
| |
Comments: |
I don't think ロリ and ロリコン should be the same entry.
Splitting out ロリ
_
Based on enwiki, it seems "lolicon" can refer both to
the "phenomenon" and the "person" in English. I think
the English term refers esp. to a |
| |
Diff: |
@@ -7,3 +7,7 @@
-<r_ele>
-<reb>ロリ</reb>
-</r_ele>
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<misc>&abbr;</misc>
+<gloss>lolicon</gloss>
+<gloss>male pedophile</gloss>
+<gloss>male sexually attracted to prepubescent girls</gloss>
+</sense>
@@ -13 +16,0 @@
-<xref type="see" seq="2399250">小児性愛者</xref>
@@ -15,5 +18,2 @@
-<gloss>Lolita complex (sexual attraction to children, esp. young girls)</gloss>
-</sense>
-<sense>
-<pos>&adj-f;</pos>
-<gloss>portraying children in an erotic style</gloss>
+<gloss>lolicon</gloss>
+<gloss>male pedophilia</gloss> |