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| 1. |
[n]
[col]
▶ spirits ▶ excitement ▶ energy level ▶ (good) mood
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| 2. |
[n]
{physics}
▶ tension
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| 3. |
[n]
[rare]
▶ tension (mental strain) ▶ anxiety |
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| 13. | A 2025-12-23 22:04:50 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | I don't mind leaving it as rare. Just so long as it has an indication that it's not in common use. |
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| 12. | A* 2025-12-23 06:09:06 | |
| Comments: | Can you stop referring to what you've been told by LLMs at every single turn, Brian? They're extremwly unreliable. |
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| 11. | A* 2025-12-23 05:57:04 Brian Krznarich <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | https://chatgpt.com/share/694a29d6-94e4-8008-84da-11affdde11a8 1. Did Japanese ever naturally use テンション = mental strain? Not really. Unlike the physics sense, which had a stable technical niche, the psychological “strain” sense: was imported conceptually from English appeared sporadically in: * translations * academic or pseudo-academic prose * non-native or heavily Westernized writing * never fully entered everyday Japanese never replaced 緊張, which already did the job perfectly So there is no historical stage where: テンション = 心理的緊張 was normal, idiomatic Japanese and then later disappeared. Without that “normal → obsolete” lifecycle, archaic is the wrong diagnosis. ... 4. Better labels (lexicographically honest) Depending on your tagging system, better options are: [rare] [non-idiomatic] [translationese] [foreign-influenced] [academic / calque] ==== A 1990 reader would interpret テンションが高まる as “mental strain” only if: The text is: academic / clinical / translated clearly influenced by English or German The surrounding vocabulary strongly primes strain: 神経 緊迫 ストレス 心理的負荷 The author is not writing idiomatic Japanese, but mapping a foreign conceptual framework. A native author writing naturally in 1990 would still choose: 緊張が高まる 精神的緊張が強まる 不安が増す |
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| Comments: | I just cannot find any evidence at all for the "mental strain" sense(I don't mean from LLMs, I mean from anywhere, and I have tried). [dated] suggests to me that at least some older Japanese people would understand [3] in context. But I have been unable to find any such examples. [dated] also admits the possibility at テンションが上がる might be ambiguous in meaning in a 30 year old text. That does not appear to be the case either. chatgpt also disliked "anxiety" when I was doing the edit. This is a direct translation out of daijs: 精神的な緊張。また、不安。 Chatgpt thinks this is a very narrow, specific type of anxiety. But ultimately I couldn't confirm any nuance for [3] because there are no examples of [3] anywhere. This seems like one of those "direct translation from the dictionary" glosses that are notoriously imprecise. LLM analysis is of course not definitive. But unless anyone can find any evidence to the contrary (I could not), [rare] seems like better guidance to me. |
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| Diff: | @@ -24 +24 @@ -<misc>&dated;</misc> +<misc>&rare;</misc> |
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| 10. | A* 2025-12-21 20:04:18 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | Perhaps this is more appropriate ("never used with this meaning in modern Japanese"). |
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| Diff: | @@ -24 +24 @@ -<misc>&rare;</misc> +<misc>&dated;</misc> |
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| 9. | A* 2025-12-21 13:39:51 Brian Krznarich <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | If not [psych], then [rare] is surely accurate. I tried the usual book searches, logical collocated keyword searches, etc. I begged my LLMs to find me a single example of [3], and they simply told me it's essentially never used with this meaning in modern Japanese. Absent evidence to the contrary, [rare] seems safe and preferable. I guess I only gave the nod to [psych] at all in deference to daijs. I'll be more careful about that. |
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| Diff: | @@ -23,0 +24 @@ +<misc>&rare;</misc> |
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| (show/hide 8 older log entries) | ||
| 1. |
[n]
[col]
▶ hole ▶ hollow |
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| 2. |
[n]
▶ pothole (road, pavement, etc.)
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| 5. | A 2025-12-20 19:36:19 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 4. | A* 2025-12-20 16:19:31 parfait8 | |
| Refs: | Google N-gram Corpus Counts ╭─ーーーー─┬────────┬───────╮ │ 穴ぼこ │ 20,325 │ 72.3% │ │ 穴ボコ │ 3,062 │ 10.9% │ add │ 穴凹 │ 1,161 │ 4.1% │ add sK (not in my refs) │ あなぼこ │ 3,016 │ 10.7% │ │ アナボコ │ 536 │ 1.9% │ add ╰─ーーーー─┴────────┴───────╯ |
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| Diff: | @@ -8,0 +9,5 @@ +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> +</k_ele> +<k_ele> +<keb>穴ボコ</keb> +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> @@ -12,0 +18,4 @@ +<r_ele> +<reb>アナボコ</reb> +<re_inf>&sk;</re_inf> +</r_ele> @@ -16 +24,0 @@ -<s_inf>esp. 穴ぼこ</s_inf> |
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| 3. | A 2014-02-26 01:12:31 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | not sure the sense split is necessary or esp. is needed |
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| 2. | A* 2014-02-25 23:33:40 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | http://www.city.chiryu.aichi.jp/0000006548.html (穴凹 example) |
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| Comments: | 穴凹 gets 260 real Google hits and 1161 in the Google ngrams. WWW images mostly show potholes in roads, etc. The images for 穴ぼこ are broader, but include a lot of potholes too. I think 穴凹 should go back in, perhaps as proposed. |
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| Diff: | @@ -5,0 +6,3 @@ +</k_ele> +<k_ele> +<keb>穴凹</keb> @@ -12,0 +16 @@ +<s_inf>esp. 穴ぼこ</s_inf> @@ -15,0 +20,4 @@ +<sense> +<pos>&n;</pos> +<gloss>pothole (road, pavement, etc.)</gloss> +</sense> |
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| 1. | A* 2014-02-25 08:38:00 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | all dics have only 穴ぼこ. not sure what to do with 穴凹 if kept. not necessarily iK |
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| Diff: | @@ -5 +5 @@ -<keb>穴凹</keb> +<keb>穴ぼこ</keb> @@ -11,0 +12 @@ +<misc>&col;</misc> |
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| 1. |
[adv]
[uk]
▶ as (much) as possible ▶ as (much) as one can ▶ wherever practicable ▶ if possible
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| 5. | A 2025-12-20 21:21:39 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | We can hide 成るたけ and remove the reading restriction |
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| Diff: | @@ -10 +10 @@ -<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf> +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> @@ -17 +16,0 @@ -<re_restr>成る丈</re_restr> |
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| 4. | A 2025-12-20 19:36:41 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 3. | A* 2025-12-20 17:24:54 parfait8 | |
| Refs: | Google N-gram Corpus Counts ╭─ーーーー─┬─────────┬───────╮ │ 成る丈 │ 530 │ 0.1% │ add rK │ 成るたけ │ 876 │ 0.1% │ add rK │ なるたけ │ 58,071 │ 7.6% │ │ なるだけ │ 699,841 │ 92.2% │ ╰─ーーーー─┴─────────┴───────╯ Google N-gram Corpus Counts ╭─ーーーーーー─┬───────┬───────╮ │ 成る丈早く │ 0 │ 0.0% │ │ 成るたけ早く │ 90 │ 1.6% │ │ なるたけ早く │ 2,488 │ 43.4% │ │ なるだけ早く │ 3,154 │ 55.0% │ ╰─ーーーーーー─┴───────┴───────╯ |
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| Diff: | @@ -5,0 +6 @@ +<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf> @@ -8,0 +10 @@ +<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf> |
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| 2. | A 2020-11-22 20:40:12 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 1. | A* 2020-11-22 12:08:24 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | gg5, daij |
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| Comments: | Aligning with なるべく. |
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| Diff: | @@ -18,0 +19 @@ +<xref type="see" seq="1375620">なるべく</xref> @@ -20 +21,3 @@ -<gloss>as much as possible</gloss> +<gloss>as (much) as possible</gloss> +<gloss>as (much) as one can</gloss> +<gloss>wherever practicable</gloss> |
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| 1. |
[n]
▶ Japan's three famous sights (Matsushima, Miyajima and Ama-no-Hashidate) |
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| 2. | A 2025-12-20 09:47:16 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 1. | A* 2025-12-20 08:31:49 GM <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | gg5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Views_of_Japan NHK accent: にっぽんさんけい【日本三景】 |
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| Diff: | @@ -9,0 +10,3 @@ +<r_ele> +<reb>にっぽんさんけい</reb> +</r_ele> @@ -12 +15 @@ -<gloss>Japan's three famous sights</gloss> +<gloss>Japan's three famous sights (Matsushima, Miyajima and Ama-no-Hashidate)</gloss> |
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| 1. |
[n]
{medicine}
▶ mumps
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| 6. | A 2025-12-20 23:23:46 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | Not a household term, but GG5 has it, along with mumps. |
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| 5. | A* 2025-12-20 21:52:23 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | daijr: 流行性耳下腺炎の俗称。 阿多福風 0 - daijs, nikk |
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| Comments: | I don't think "epidemic parotitis" is needed on this entry. |
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| Diff: | @@ -18,0 +19,4 @@ +<k_ele> +<keb>阿多福風</keb> +<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf> +</k_ele> @@ -26 +29,0 @@ -<gloss>epidemic parotitis</gloss> |
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| 4. | A 2025-08-17 20:28:09 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | おたふく風邪 73574 61.8% 阿多福風邪 0 0.0% お多福風 57 0.0% お多福風邪 892 0.7% おたふくかぜ 44594 37.4% All in kokugos. |
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| Diff: | @@ -8 +8,2 @@ -<keb>阿多福風邪</keb> +<keb>お多福風邪</keb> +<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf> @@ -11,0 +13 @@ +<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf> @@ -14 +16,2 @@ -<keb>お多福風邪</keb> +<keb>阿多福風邪</keb> +<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf> |
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| 3. | A* 2025-08-17 17:38:45 | |
| Refs: | 広辞苑 第四版; 岩波国語辞典 |
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| Diff: | @@ -8,0 +9,3 @@ +</k_ele> +<k_ele> +<keb>お多福風</keb> |
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| 2. | A 2013-09-19 05:44:42 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | GG5 |
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| (show/hide 1 older log entries) | ||
| 1. |
[n]
{physics}
▶ anode ray ▶ positive ray ▶ canal ray
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| 4. | A 2025-12-20 22:35:26 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | Judging from a web search, 陽極線 is quite a bit more common than カナル線. |
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| Diff: | @@ -12 +12 @@ -<xref type="see" seq="2833102">カナル線</xref> +<field>&physics;</field> |
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| 3. | A 2019-02-18 00:06:16 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 2. | A* 2019-02-17 01:12:11 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | gg5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anode_ray |
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| Diff: | @@ -12,2 +12,4 @@ -<xref type="see" seq="1170300">陰極線</xref> -<gloss>anode rays</gloss> +<xref type="see" seq="2833102">カナル線</xref> +<gloss>anode ray</gloss> +<gloss>positive ray</gloss> +<gloss>canal ray</gloss> |
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| 1. | A 2017-08-06 20:41:39 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...> | |
| Diff: | @@ -11,0 +12 @@ +<xref type="see" seq="1170300">陰極線</xref> |
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| 1. |
[n]
{medicine}
▶ epidemic parotitis ▶ mumps
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| 2. | A 2025-12-20 00:18:08 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | gg5 流行性耳下腺炎 16,396 おたふく風邪 73,574 |
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| Diff: | @@ -11,0 +12 @@ +<xref type="see" seq="1778590">おたふく風邪</xref> @@ -12,0 +14 @@ +<gloss>epidemic parotitis</gloss> |
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| 1. | A 2023-08-15 19:24:30 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...> | |
| Diff: | @@ -11,0 +12 @@ +<field>&med;</field> |
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| 1. |
[adj-na,n]
Source lang:
eng "high tension"
▶ excited ▶ enthusiastic ▶ hyped ▶ high-strung ▶ worked-up ▶ intense
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| 2. |
[adj-f]
▶ high-tensile (e.g. steel)
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| 3. |
[adj-f]
[rare]
{electricity, elec. eng.}
▶ high-voltage (e.g. circuit) ▶ high-tension (e.g. current) |
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| 14. | A 2025-12-20 19:43:52 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | It's not really wasei, and shouldn't be tagged as such. Two lsrc tags would be confusing. |
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| 13. | A* 2025-12-20 11:10:38 Sombrero1 | |
| Comments: | "Sense one is definitely wasei. But since at least sense three is not wasei I left it out for now. As the lsrc tag applies to the whole entry in theory. Would there be anything stopping us from having two lsrc tags for disambiguation purposes in the same entry?" The same goes for the ローテーション entry. |
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| 12. | A 2025-12-20 10:48:21 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 11. | A* 2025-12-20 10:39:43 Sombrero1 | |
| Comments: | Oops, I take that back about the tension xref. I just quickly glanced at the entry in yomitan, but since it's not updated to Brian's recent edit yet I saw the old version. |
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| Diff: | @@ -16 +15,0 @@ -<xref type="see" seq="1080970">テンション・2</xref> |
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| 10. | A* 2025-12-20 10:33:00 Sombrero1 | |
| Refs: | Oukoku, Koj, GendaiShinkoku, 現代用語の基礎知識2019, 学研 カタカナ新語辞典 and Sankoku have 和製英語 for sense one. Oukoku, Meikyo, GendaiShinkoku and Sankoku also give [n] for sense one Gakken: ハイ・テンション[high tension] 1《電》高電圧.高圧の.2 精神の高揚状態.2ハイとも.△〜な.◆2は和製用法 現代用語の基礎知識2019: 緊張状態。(和製用法で)盛り上がっていること。 RP: 【電】 高圧の, 高圧電流用の《略 HT》. ・high‐tension currents 高圧電流. |
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| Comments: | I think the xref on sense one could refer to sense one and two in the テンション entry. Linking also with ローテンション Sense one is definitely wasei. But since at least sense three is not wasei I left it out for now. As the lsrc tag applies to the whole entry in theory. Would there be anything stopping us from having two lsrc tags for disambiguation purposes in the same entry? |
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| Diff: | @@ -11,0 +12,3 @@ +<pos>&n;</pos> +<xref type="see" seq="2857675">ローテンション・1</xref> +<xref type="see" seq="2857675">ローテンション・1</xref> @@ -12,0 +16 @@ +<xref type="see" seq="1080970">テンション・2</xref> @@ -27,0 +32 @@ +<field>&elec;</field> @@ -30 +35 @@ -<gloss>high tension</gloss> +<gloss>high-tension (e.g. current)</gloss> |
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| (show/hide 9 older log entries) | ||
| 1. |
[exp,v1]
[id]
▶ to be oversensitive ▶ to be nervous ▶ to be overly concerned ▶ to worry too much |
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| 5. | A 2025-12-20 20:21:17 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 4. | A* 2025-12-20 17:17:40 parfait8 | |
| Refs: | Google N-gram Corpus Counts ╭─ーーーーーーー─┬────────┬───────╮ │ 神経を尖らせ │ 10,011 │ 50.9% │ │ 神経をとがらせ │ 7,867 │ 40.0% │ │ 神経尖らせ │ 1,157 │ 5.9% │ add │ 神経とがらせ │ 614 │ 3.1% │ add ╰─ーーーーーーー─┴────────┴───────╯ |
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| Diff: | @@ -9,0 +10,8 @@ +<k_ele> +<keb>神経尖らせる</keb> +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> +</k_ele> +<k_ele> +<keb>神経とがらせる</keb> +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> +</k_ele> @@ -15,0 +24 @@ +<misc>&id;</misc> |
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| 3. | A 2012-09-30 11:51:28 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 2. | A* 2012-09-28 20:12:31 Paul Upchurch <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | daij, nikk, ALC examples |
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| Diff: | @@ -16,1 +16,4 @@ -<gloss>to get on one's nerves</gloss> +<gloss>to be oversensitive</gloss> +<gloss>to be nervous</gloss> +<gloss>to be overly concerned</gloss> +<gloss>to worry too much</gloss> |
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| 1. | A 2007-11-18 00:00:00 | |
| Comments: | Entry created |
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| 1. |
[adj-no,n]
{computing}
▶ interactive |
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| 3. | A 2025-12-20 23:24:08 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 2. | A* 2025-12-20 21:51:10 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | 対話型 61,219 対話形 451 |
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| Comments: | Merging 2372780. |
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| Diff: | @@ -6,0 +7,4 @@ +<k_ele> +<keb>対話形</keb> +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> +</k_ele> @@ -10,0 +15 @@ +<pos>&adj-no;</pos> @@ -12 +16,0 @@ -<pos>&adj-no;</pos> |
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| 1. | A 2008-05-24 00:00:00 | |
| Comments: | Entry created |
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| 1. |
[n]
{computing}
▶ conversational mode ▶ interactive mode |
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| 3. | D 2025-12-20 23:26:46 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | Merged, I see. |
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| 2. | D* 2025-12-20 21:48:25 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | 対話型 61,219 対話形 451 |
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| Comments: | I think this is just a 変換ミス. |
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| 1. | A 2008-05-24 00:00:00 | |
| Comments: | Entry created |
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| 1. |
[adj-no,n]
▶ sealed-type ▶ enclosed ▶ hermetic ▶ closed ▶ closed-back (headphones) |
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| 5. | A 2025-12-21 04:24:02 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 4. | A* 2025-12-20 23:43:04 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | reverso, eij |
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| Comments: | Not specifically a computing term. |
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| Diff: | @@ -10,0 +11 @@ +<pos>&adj-no;</pos> @@ -12,7 +13,5 @@ -<field>∁</field> -<gloss>encapsulated type</gloss> -</sense> -<sense> -<pos>&n;</pos> -<gloss>closed type (e.g. headphones)</gloss> -<gloss>sealed type</gloss> +<gloss>sealed-type</gloss> +<gloss>enclosed</gloss> +<gloss>hermetic</gloss> +<gloss>closed</gloss> +<gloss>closed-back (headphones)</gloss> |
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| 3. | A 2017-08-15 00:51:37 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Diff: | @@ -18 +18 @@ -<gloss>sealed</gloss> +<gloss>sealed type</gloss> |
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| 2. | A* 2017-08-02 11:36:20 Amen Lernsky <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | eij |
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| Diff: | @@ -14,0 +15,5 @@ +<sense> +<pos>&n;</pos> +<gloss>closed type (e.g. headphones)</gloss> +<gloss>sealed</gloss> +</sense> |
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| 1. | A 2008-05-24 00:00:00 | |
| Comments: | Entry created |
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| 1. |
[n]
Source lang:
eng(wasei) "comic song"
▶ novelty song |
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| 3. | A 2025-12-20 04:40:43 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | GG5 and ルミナス have comic song. |
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| 2. | A* 2025-12-20 04:28:31 Joe Murray | |
| Refs: | https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/コミックソング https://kotobank.jp/word/こみつくそんぐ-3210873#w-504570 daijs, wiki コミックソング 11843 |
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| Comments: | wiki has this as wasei and I agree, I don't think "comic song" is a term used in English really |
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| Diff: | @@ -6,0 +7,3 @@ +<r_ele> +<reb>コミック・ソング</reb> +</r_ele> @@ -9 +12,2 @@ -<gloss>comic song</gloss> +<lsource ls_wasei="y">comic song</lsource> +<gloss>novelty song</gloss> |
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| 1. | A 2009-07-17 00:00:00 | |
| Comments: | Entry created |
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| 1. |
[n]
▶ wasanbon ▶ [expl] fine-grained Japanese sugar (traditionally used in wagashi)
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| 2. |
[n]
▶ wagashi sweets made from wasanbon
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| 6. | A 2025-12-20 09:56:43 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | KOD, Daijs |
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| Diff: | @@ -14 +14 @@ -<gloss g_type="expl">fine-grained Japanese sugar traditionally used in wagashi</gloss> +<gloss g_type="expl">fine-grained Japanese sugar (traditionally used in wagashi)</gloss> |
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| 5. | A* 2025-12-18 14:22:31 | |
| Comments: | each gloss needs to be independent |
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| Diff: | @@ -13 +13,2 @@ -<gloss>fine-grained Japanese sugar traditionally used in wagashi</gloss> +<gloss>wasanbon</gloss> +<gloss g_type="expl">fine-grained Japanese sugar traditionally used in wagashi</gloss> @@ -19 +20 @@ -<gloss>wagashi sweets made from this sugar</gloss> +<gloss>wagashi sweets made from wasanbon</gloss> |
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| 4. | A* 2025-12-18 13:57:23 Brian Krznarich <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/和三盆 [1]wasanbon, a type of fine-grained Japanese sugar [2]pressed sugar tea-sweets in various seasonal shapes 和三盆 117561 99.9% 唐三盆 88 0.1% 干菓子 43800 お干菓子 9772 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasanbon Wasanbon (和三盆) is a fine-grained Japanese sugar, traditionally made in the Shikoku prefectures of Tokushima and Kagawa, |
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| Comments: | "refined" was quite generic. super-rare xref. It's a fair contrast, but not super-relevant. I think "esp. used in wagashi" is true enough and useful for understanding. I don't know where else I've ever seen it. https://www.amazon.co.jp/お干菓子-和三盆-和菓子-16p-干菓子/dp/B0G4V6CF8R/ Wiktionary gives a second sense: the candy itself. I'm inclined to agree. The box cover on this amazon product demonstrates: https://www.amazon.co.jp/お干菓子-和三盆-和菓子-16p-干菓子/dp/B0G4V6CF8R/ (Front and center: 和菓子 Side: もへじのお干菓子, which is the xref on [2]. ) You might prefer wiktionary's more detailed gloss, which I think is the specific kind of sweet we're talking about. |
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| Diff: | @@ -12,2 +12,8 @@ -<xref type="see" seq="2577330">唐三盆</xref> -<gloss>refined Japanese sugar</gloss> +<xref type="see" seq="1562020">和菓子</xref> +<gloss>fine-grained Japanese sugar traditionally used in wagashi</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&n;</pos> +<xref type="see" seq="1209710">干菓子</xref> +<xref type="see" seq="1209710">干菓子</xref> +<gloss>wagashi sweets made from this sugar</gloss> |
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| 3. | A 2010-09-04 20:56:59 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...> | |
| 2. | A* 2010-09-04 20:56:46 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...> | |
| Diff: | @@ -12,0 +12,1 @@ +<xref type="see" seq="2577330">唐三盆</xref> |
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| (show/hide 1 older log entries) | ||
| 1. |
[n]
[uk]
{architecture}
▶ tenon ▶ cog ▶ pivot
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| 8. | A 2025-12-21 04:25:00 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 7. | A* 2025-12-20 22:22:51 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | The EJs gloss "dovetail" as ありほぞ. I don't think it's needed here. ほぞ穴 gets significantly more web hits. |
|
| Diff: | @@ -12 +12 @@ -<xref type="see" seq="2587690">ホゾ穴</xref> +<xref type="see" seq="2587690">ほぞ穴</xref> @@ -17 +16,0 @@ -<gloss>dovetail</gloss> |
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| 6. | A 2024-01-09 04:27:32 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | More popular form. |
|
| Diff: | @@ -12 +12 @@ -<xref type="see" seq="2587690">ほぞ穴</xref> +<xref type="see" seq="2587690">ホゾ穴</xref> |
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| 5. | A 2024-01-09 04:18:59 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | Most kokugos have this word and kanji form. Google N-gram Corpus Counts ╭─ーーーー─┬───────┬───────╮ │ 枘接合 │ 69 │ 23.4% │ │ ほぞ接合 │ 155 │ 52.5% │ │ ホゾ接合 │ 71 │ 24.1% │ ├─ーーーー─┼───────┼───────┤ │ 枘差し │ 22 │ 3.3% │ │ ほぞ差し │ 441 │ 66.3% │ │ ホゾ差し │ 202 │ 30.4% │ ├─ーーーー─┼───────┼───────┤ │ 枘穴 │ 113 │ 1.0% │ - (entry 2587690) │ ほぞ穴 │ 4,918 │ 42.3% │ │ ホゾ穴 │ 6,599 │ 56.7% │ ╰─ーーーー─┴───────┴───────╯ |
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| Comments: | Not sure this needs to be [rK]. The [uk] tag is probably enough. |
|
| Diff: | @@ -6 +5,0 @@ -<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf> |
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| 4. | A 2015-04-28 06:06:06 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| (show/hide 3 older log entries) | ||
| 1. |
[n,vs,vt]
▶ verbalization ▶ putting into words |
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| 5. | A 2025-12-20 19:30:47 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 4. | A* 2025-12-20 19:11:09 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | reverso |
|
| Diff: | @@ -13 +13,2 @@ -<gloss>verbalizing</gloss> +<pos>&vt;</pos> +<gloss>verbalization</gloss> |
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| 3. | A 2010-11-26 12:36:53 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 2. | A* 2010-11-26 07:16:07 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...> | |
| Diff: | @@ -12,1 +12,3 @@ -<gloss>To put/formulate into words</gloss> +<pos>&vs;</pos> +<gloss>verbalizing</gloss> +<gloss>putting into words</gloss> |
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| 1. | A* 2010-11-25 09:53:18 | |
| Refs: | http://toto.cocolog-nifty.com/kokugo/2006/02/post_2db0.html |
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| 1. |
[n]
[arch]
《usu. only in compounds》 ▶ traditional high-grade white sugar
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| 4. | A 2025-12-20 09:58:01 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 3. | A* 2025-12-18 14:25:21 Brian Krznarich <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | 三盆 120050 50.4% <--- this 和三盆 117561 49.3% <--- includes this 唐三盆 88 0.0% 三盆白 234 0.1% 阿波三盆糖 445 0.2% 祝三盆 0 0.0% https://kotobank.jp/word/三盆-514858 白砂糖の一種。伝統的製法により特別に精製を繰り返した上等な砂糖。上白糖じょうはくとうをいうこともある。三盆白じろ。→和三盆 A type of white sugar. A high-grade sugar produced by repeatedly refining it using traditional methods. It may also refer to jōhakutō (上白糖). Also called sanbon-shiro (三盆白). と和三盆 5308 99.5% と三盆 25 0.5% と三盆糖 21 0.4% の和三盆 9647 98.7% の三盆 129 1.3% の三盆 129 の三盆糖 88 の三盆白 32 <-- separate item |
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| Comments: | Not only Japanese (see 唐三盆) Google search (subtracting all the compounds I encountered): "三盆" -"和三盆" -"唐三盆" -"三盆白" -"阿波三盆糖" -"祝三盆" Almost nothing of consequence remains. gpt suggests: Lexicographic takeaway 三盆 is a bound morpheme in modern Japanese It has no independent productive life Only 和三盆 is truly alive 唐三盆 survives only as a historical contrast term |
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| Diff: | @@ -13,3 +13,6 @@ -<xref type="see" seq="2577310">和三盆・1</xref> -<xref type="see" seq="2577310">和三盆・1</xref> -<gloss>fine high-grade Japanese refined sugar</gloss> +<xref type="see" seq="2577310">和三盆</xref> +<xref type="see" seq="2577310">和三盆</xref> +<xref type="see" seq="2577330">唐三盆</xref> +<misc>&arch;</misc> +<s_inf>usu. only in compounds</s_inf> +<gloss>traditional high-grade white sugar</gloss> |
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| 2. | A 2011-01-05 22:27:09 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...> | |
| Diff: | @@ -12,1 +12,2 @@ -<gloss>fine high grade Japanese refined sugar</gloss> +<xref type="see" seq="2577310">和三盆</xref> +<gloss>fine high-grade Japanese refined sugar</gloss> |
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| 1. | A* 2011-01-05 05:31:18 Scott | |
| Refs: | koj |
|
| 1. |
[n]
[arch]
▶ traditional high-grade white sugar
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| 4. | A 2025-12-20 09:57:25 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 3. | A* 2025-12-18 14:29:29 Brian Krznarich <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | https://kotobank.jp/word/三盆白-71490 さんぼん‐じろ【三盆白】 ⇒三盆 出典 小学館デジタル大辞泉について 情報 | 凡例 |
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| Comments: | align. see xref 和三盆 117561 唐三盆 88 0.0% 三盆白 234 0.1% I think [arch] at this point, or [hist] or just [rare]. |
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| Diff: | @@ -14 +14,2 @@ -<gloss>fine high-grade Japanese refined sugar</gloss> +<misc>&arch;</misc> +<gloss>traditional high-grade white sugar</gloss> |
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| 2. | A 2011-01-05 22:29:13 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...> | |
| Diff: | @@ -13,1 +13,1 @@ -<gloss>fine high grade Japanese refined sugar</gloss> +<gloss>fine high-grade Japanese refined sugar</gloss> |
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| 1. | A* 2011-01-05 05:31:33 Scott | |
| Refs: | koj |
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| 1. |
[n]
[uk]
{food, cooking}
Dialect: thb
▶ zunda ▶ [expl] mashed boiled green soybeans, often sweetened and used as a topping or filling
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| 8. | A 2025-12-20 04:41:18 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 7. | A* 2025-12-20 01:19:52 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | daijs https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ずんだ |
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| Comments: | Not always sweetened. |
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| Diff: | @@ -16 +16 @@ -<gloss>sweetened boiled and mashed green soybeans</gloss> +<gloss g_type="expl">mashed boiled green soybeans, often sweetened and used as a topping or filling</gloss> |
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| 6. | A* 2025-12-17 10:22:21 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | KOD |
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| Diff: | @@ -15 +15,2 @@ -<gloss>mashed boiled green soybeans</gloss> +<gloss>zunda</gloss> +<gloss>sweetened boiled and mashed green soybeans</gloss> |
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| 5. | A 2013-06-18 23:47:40 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | daijr |
|
| Diff: | @@ -14,0 +14,1 @@ +<dial>&thb;</dial> |
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| 4. | A* 2013-06-18 15:26:30 Nils Roland Barth <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | daijr |
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| Comments: | * fld=food * boiled first |
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| Diff: | @@ -12,0 +12,1 @@ +<field>&food;</field> @@ -13,1 +14,1 @@ -<gloss>mashed green soybeans</gloss> +<gloss>mashed boiled green soybeans</gloss> |
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| (show/hide 3 older log entries) | ||
| 1. |
[exp,v1]
▶ to be of no importance |
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| 6. | A 2025-12-20 20:22:06 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 5. | A* 2025-12-20 18:19:34 parfait8 | |
| Refs: | Google N-gram Corpus Counts ╭─ーーーーー─┬────────┬───────╮ │ たかが知れ │ 73,581 │ 64.4% │ │ 高が知れ │ 9,159 │ 8.0% │ │ タカが知れ │ 4,613 │ 4.0% │ add │ たかがしれ │ 26,190 │ 22.9% │ │ タカがしれ │ 675 │ 0.6% │ ╰─ーーーーー─┴────────┴───────╯ |
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| Diff: | @@ -8,0 +9,4 @@ +</k_ele> +<k_ele> +<keb>タカが知れる</keb> +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> |
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| 4. | A 2015-08-04 11:29:55 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 3. | A* 2015-08-04 06:45:35 luce | |
| Refs: | n-grams たかが知れる 33 高が知れる 4 |
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| Diff: | @@ -3,0 +4,3 @@ +<k_ele> +<keb>たかが知れる</keb> +</k_ele> |
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| 2. | A 2011-05-25 10:31:37 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| (show/hide 1 older log entries) | ||
| 1. |
[n,vs,vi]
[col]
▶ person obsessed with thoughts of sex ▶ being obsessed with love or lust |
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| 10. | A 2025-12-20 20:28:06 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | Jitsuyo |
|
| Comments: | I think it's both. Could be two senses. |
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| Diff: | @@ -25,0 +26 @@ +<gloss>person obsessed with thoughts of sex</gloss> |
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| 9. | A* 2025-12-20 14:54:57 parfait8 | |
| Refs: | sankoku, jitsuyo Google N-gram Corpus Counts ╭─ーーーー─┬───────┬───────╮ │ 色ボケ │ 9,413 │ 83.1% │ │ 色ぼけ │ 1,027 │ 9.1% │ add sK │ 色惚け │ 623 │ 5.5% │ │ 色呆け │ 199 │ 1.8% │ add rK (sankoku) │ いろぼけ │ 65 │ 0.6% │ ╰─ーーーー─┴───────┴───────╯ |
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| Diff: | @@ -8,3 +7,0 @@ -<keb>色ぼけ</keb> -</k_ele> -<k_ele> @@ -14,0 +12,5 @@ +<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf> +</k_ele> +<k_ele> +<keb>色ぼけ</keb> +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> @@ -20,0 +23,2 @@ +<pos>&vs;</pos> +<pos>&vi;</pos> @@ -22 +26 @@ -<gloss>person obsessed with thoughts of sex</gloss> +<gloss>being obsessed with love or lust</gloss> |
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| 8. | A 2022-10-20 22:10:53 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
| Diff: | @@ -17,4 +16,0 @@ -<reb>いろボケ</reb> -<re_restr>色ボケ</re_restr> -</r_ele> -<r_ele> @@ -22,3 +17,0 @@ -<re_restr>色ぼけ</re_restr> -<re_restr>色惚け</re_restr> -<re_restr>色呆け</re_restr> |
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| 7. | A 2022-10-20 10:57:55 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | I don't think either of them works here. |
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| 6. | A* 2022-10-20 00:53:24 Opencooper | |
| Comments: | horndog? nympho? |
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| (show/hide 5 older log entries) | ||
| 1. |
[exp,prt]
《following a noun or na-adjective》 ▶ because ▶ as ▶ since ▶ so
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| 8. | A* 2025-12-20 06:37:12 Sean McBroom <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | I've only just seen this, and I apologize for not responding sooner. I thought that the usage of だから at the beginning of a sentence would be obvious, but I can see how there could be confusion, since なので is almost never used in that position. I'm just not sure how to explain that simply in a note. Maybe the entry for だから is already enough, since it clearly has a different meaning than なので? Maybe we could move up "that's why", "for that reason" on that entry? |
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| 7. | A* 2025-08-05 19:07:25 Sombrero1 | |
| Refs: | Shinsen, sankoku, etc. : ㊀連語〔断定の助動詞「だ」の連体形「な」に接続助詞「ので」がついたもの〕原因・理由をあらわす。…だから。「大事なこと━、もう一度言います」 参考くだけた話しことばでは「なんで」となる。 ㊁ナ接続前の文の内容を原因・理由として起こる結果を次の文で述べるときの言い方。だから。それで。「今日は仕事が休みだ。━、朝寝坊ができた」 参考「なので」は「だから」に比べて新しく使われ始めた接続詞で、書きことばとしてはまだ十分には浸透していない。 Sankoku: なんで〔話〕 Multiple references note that sentence initial usage of なので is rather colloquial compared to だから Sankoku: 〔話しことばで使われ、二十世紀末から文章でも増えた用法〕 Meikyo: 《主に話し言葉で》〔俗〕 Smk: 〔口頭語的表現〕 Additional usage data (BCCWJ being the largest, and CEJC the smallest corpus of the three; obtained using 中納言): BCCWJ = 現代日本語書き言葉均衡コーパス ~104mil words CSJ = 日本語話し言葉コーパス ~7mil words CEJC = 日本語日常会話コーパス ~4mil words なので Corpus; Sentence initial(接続詞); Non-sentence initial(連語) BCCWJ; 1520; 28176 CSJ; 105; 1566 CEJC; 146; 333 だから Corpus; Sentence initial(接続詞); Non-sentence initial(連語) BCCWJ; 15041; 44070 CSJ; 1838; 2546 CEJC; 5858; 5085 . |
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| Comments: | First of all, なので isn't a parallel to から, but to だから. The only difference being that ので takes the 連体形 and から the 終止形, hence it not being だので. There are really two cases to distinguish here. 1. なので as an conjunctive expression arising from the 連体形 of copula だ after nouns and な adjectives and the 連体形 bound conjunctive particle ので. This is only in references because it's not as obvious. 2. なので as a single conjunction used *at sentence beginning* like だから, which is a rather new usage as indicated by multiple references. The corpus data further substantiates what the references have already established: - なので as a 接続詞, i.e. at sentence beginning, is far less common than だから in the same position. In total counts and especially in relation to non-sentence initial usage - this also indicates more recent development for that sense in なので as it is not yet well represented in the existing corpi - だから is more common than なので in spoken language - the sentence initial usage being higher than the non-sentence initial usage, in CEJC, is a good indicator for だから sense 3 in the pastebin, as such connotations are far easier supplied using tone - this potentially also speaks for the difference in objectivity, and subsequently formality, outlined in references - non-sentence initial なので is less frequently used in daily conversation than だから Though technically not necessary, multiple references have an entry for なので in non-sentence intial position, i.e. case one of the above. I believe it's probably worthwhile to have in a dictionary mainly catering towards foreigners learning the language, so as to not lead to ungrammaticalities. I think the two respective pairs and all four entries, から・だから and ので・なので, can be improved and aligned for consistency. In the pastebin below I have a proposal with references for each of the four. I thought it'd be way less messy than starting four separate edits at the same time. https://pastebin.com/hesz2mKY I don't know if there's a way to enable others to participate in editing a paste there, probably not. But comments can be posted. |
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| 6. | A 2025-06-14 07:25:45 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | OK |
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| 5. | A* 2025-06-07 17:57:05 Sean McBroom <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | Perhaps not. But it does add value by providing important grammatical context, particularly for beginners, since this is a な + の construction that applies specifically after nouns and na-adjectives. |
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| 4. | A 2025-06-07 04:31:24 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | Not sure that note is needed. |
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| (show/hide 3 older log entries) | ||
| 1. |
[exp,prt]
《following a noun or na-adjective》 ▶ because ▶ as ▶ since ▶ so
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| 9. | A* 2025-12-21 14:53:47 Sombrero1 | |
| Refs: | *1)Meikyo: [接]〔新〕前に述べたことを理由として、その帰結を導く意を表す。
「明日から早朝練習だ。なので、早く寝た方がいいよ」
Please note that this differs from the Meikyo reference posted below, as this is from the third edition. Which I didn't yet have at the time of writing my initial submission.
*2)Shinsen:[連語]〔断定の助動詞「だ」の連体形「な」に接続助詞「ので」がついたもの〕原因・理由をあらわす。…だから。
「大事なこと━、もう一度言います」
. |
|
| Comments: | My point and proposal wasn't about your note in particular. Though I appreciate someone finally nudging it, as I'd somewhat forgotten about it myself. >"I thought that the usage of だから at the beginning of a sentence would be obvious, but I can see how there could be confusion, since なので is almost never used in that position." What exactly are you referring to here? I don't quite understand. The point is that for both だから and なので, but especially the latter, there are two "separate" use cases to look at (for だから there's also the third). For なので compare *1 and *2. I won't regurgitate everything here, since the same gist can be taken from what's already been posted below. Just to make it clear, I am proposing a 4 entry alignment of the なので・ので and だから・から pairs. They are all inconsistent right now, both with each other and with the kokugos (on top of the fact that the single sense in this current entry should have [exp,conj]). And a not insignificant amount of references take this approach. Drafts of all four entries are in the pastebin below. I totally understand why this proposal has been sitting here for this long. After all it spans four separate entries. Another factor is the, in all likelihood, massive amount of sentences that would need to be indexed and reindexed following this string of edits. I just want to note that if there is a way in which I could help working on these sentences, I'd gladly do so. As stated below, the reason I put this forward only in form of a pastebin at first, was to not make it unnecessarily messy right off the bat. However, as enough time has passed now in my eyes, I'm going to wait a bit after this reply to see if there are any new responses. And if nothing new comes in, I'll (re)draft and submit my proposed edits and see how it goes. I would begin with only two edits, the なので and ので pair, to set things in motion. |
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| 8. | A* 2025-12-20 06:37:12 Sean McBroom <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | I've only just seen this, and I apologize for not responding sooner. I thought that the usage of だから at the beginning of a sentence would be obvious, but I can see how there could be confusion, since なので is almost never used in that position. I'm just not sure how to explain that simply in a note. Maybe the entry for だから is already enough, since it clearly has a different meaning than なので? Maybe we could move up "that's why", "for that reason" on that entry? |
|
| 7. | A* 2025-08-05 19:07:25 Sombrero1 | |
| Refs: | Shinsen, sankoku, etc. : ㊀連語〔断定の助動詞「だ」の連体形「な」に接続助詞「ので」がついたもの〕原因・理由をあらわす。…だから。「大事なこと━、もう一度言います」 参考くだけた話しことばでは「なんで」となる。 ㊁ナ接続前の文の内容を原因・理由として起こる結果を次の文で述べるときの言い方。だから。それで。「今日は仕事が休みだ。━、朝寝坊ができた」 参考「なので」は「だから」に比べて新しく使われ始めた接続詞で、書きことばとしてはまだ十分には浸透していない。 Sankoku: なんで〔話〕 Multiple references note that sentence initial usage of なので is rather colloquial compared to だから Sankoku: 〔話しことばで使われ、二十世紀末から文章でも増えた用法〕 Meikyo: 《主に話し言葉で》〔俗〕 Smk: 〔口頭語的表現〕 Additional usage data (BCCWJ being the largest, and CEJC the smallest corpus of the three; obtained using 中納言): BCCWJ = 現代日本語書き言葉均衡コーパス ~104mil words CSJ = 日本語話し言葉コーパス ~7mil words CEJC = 日本語日常会話コーパス ~4mil words なので Corpus; Sentence initial(接続詞); Non-sentence initial(連語) BCCWJ; 1520; 28176 CSJ; 105; 1566 CEJC; 146; 333 だから Corpus; Sentence initial(接続詞); Non-sentence initial(連語) BCCWJ; 15041; 44070 CSJ; 1838; 2546 CEJC; 5858; 5085 . |
|
| Comments: | First of all, なので isn't a parallel to から, but to だから. The only difference being that ので takes the 連体形 and から the 終止形, hence it not being だので. There are really two cases to distinguish here. 1. なので as an conjunctive expression arising from the 連体形 of copula だ after nouns and な adjectives and the 連体形 bound conjunctive particle ので. This is only in references because it's not as obvious. 2. なので as a single conjunction used *at sentence beginning* like だから, which is a rather new usage as indicated by multiple references. The corpus data further substantiates what the references have already established: - なので as a 接続詞, i.e. at sentence beginning, is far less common than だから in the same position. In total counts and especially in relation to non-sentence initial usage - this also indicates more recent development for that sense in なので as it is not yet well represented in the existing corpi - だから is more common than なので in spoken language - the sentence initial usage being higher than the non-sentence initial usage, in CEJC, is a good indicator for だから sense 3 in the pastebin, as such connotations are far easier supplied using tone - this potentially also speaks for the difference in objectivity, and subsequently formality, outlined in references - non-sentence initial なので is less frequently used in daily conversation than だから Though technically not necessary, multiple references have an entry for なので in non-sentence intial position, i.e. case one of the above. I believe it's probably worthwhile to have in a dictionary mainly catering towards foreigners learning the language, so as to not lead to ungrammaticalities. I think the two respective pairs and all four entries, から・だから and ので・なので, can be improved and aligned for consistency. In the pastebin below I have a proposal with references for each of the four. I thought it'd be way less messy than starting four separate edits at the same time. https://pastebin.com/hesz2mKY I don't know if there's a way to enable others to participate in editing a paste there, probably not. But comments can be posted. |
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| 6. | A 2025-06-14 07:25:45 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | OK |
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| 5. | A* 2025-06-07 17:57:05 Sean McBroom <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | Perhaps not. But it does add value by providing important grammatical context, particularly for beginners, since this is a な + の construction that applies specifically after nouns and na-adjectives. |
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| (show/hide 4 older log entries) | ||
| 1. |
[exp,prt]
《following a noun or na-adjective》 ▶ because ▶ as ▶ since ▶ so
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| 10. | A* 2025-12-21 21:00:26 Sean McBroom <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | I apologize, I must have misread parts of your proposal, because I didn't even notice the pastebin at first. I don't have any real issue with splitting out separate senses for sentence-initial usage. The only thing I'd note is that the sentence-initial senses should probably come second, not first. For the だから entry in particular, I'd also avoid repeating "so" and "therefore," and I'm not entirely convinced by some of the more adverbial-sounding glosses. "That's why" and "for that reason" feel like a better tonal match though. |
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| 9. | A* 2025-12-21 14:53:47 Sombrero1 | |
| Refs: | *1)Meikyo: [接]〔新〕前に述べたことを理由として、その帰結を導く意を表す。
「明日から早朝練習だ。なので、早く寝た方がいいよ」
Please note that this differs from the Meikyo reference posted below, as this is from the third edition. Which I didn't yet have at the time of writing my initial submission.
*2)Shinsen:[連語]〔断定の助動詞「だ」の連体形「な」に接続助詞「ので」がついたもの〕原因・理由をあらわす。…だから。
「大事なこと━、もう一度言います」
. |
|
| Comments: | My point and proposal wasn't about your note in particular. Though I appreciate someone finally nudging it, as I'd somewhat forgotten about it myself. >"I thought that the usage of だから at the beginning of a sentence would be obvious, but I can see how there could be confusion, since なので is almost never used in that position." What exactly are you referring to here? I don't quite understand. The point is that for both だから and なので, but especially the latter, there are two "separate" use cases to look at (for だから there's also the third). For なので compare *1 and *2. I won't regurgitate everything here, since the same gist can be taken from what's already been posted below. Just to make it clear, I am proposing a 4 entry alignment of the なので・ので and だから・から pairs. They are all inconsistent right now, both with each other and with the kokugos (on top of the fact that the single sense in this current entry should have [exp,conj]). And a not insignificant amount of references take this approach. Drafts of all four entries are in the pastebin below. I totally understand why this proposal has been sitting here for this long. After all it spans four separate entries. Another factor is the, in all likelihood, massive amount of sentences that would need to be indexed and reindexed following this string of edits. I just want to note that if there is a way in which I could help working on these sentences, I'd gladly do so. As stated below, the reason I put this forward only in form of a pastebin at first, was to not make it unnecessarily messy right off the bat. However, as enough time has passed now in my eyes, I'm going to wait a bit after this reply to see if there are any new responses. And if nothing new comes in, I'll (re)draft and submit my proposed edits and see how it goes. I would begin with only two edits, the なので and ので pair, to set things in motion. |
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| 8. | A* 2025-12-20 06:37:12 Sean McBroom <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | I've only just seen this, and I apologize for not responding sooner. I thought that the usage of だから at the beginning of a sentence would be obvious, but I can see how there could be confusion, since なので is almost never used in that position. I'm just not sure how to explain that simply in a note. Maybe the entry for だから is already enough, since it clearly has a different meaning than なので? Maybe we could move up "that's why", "for that reason" on that entry? |
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| 7. | A* 2025-08-05 19:07:25 Sombrero1 | |
| Refs: | Shinsen, sankoku, etc. : ㊀連語〔断定の助動詞「だ」の連体形「な」に接続助詞「ので」がついたもの〕原因・理由をあらわす。…だから。「大事なこと━、もう一度言います」 参考くだけた話しことばでは「なんで」となる。 ㊁ナ接続前の文の内容を原因・理由として起こる結果を次の文で述べるときの言い方。だから。それで。「今日は仕事が休みだ。━、朝寝坊ができた」 参考「なので」は「だから」に比べて新しく使われ始めた接続詞で、書きことばとしてはまだ十分には浸透していない。 Sankoku: なんで〔話〕 Multiple references note that sentence initial usage of なので is rather colloquial compared to だから Sankoku: 〔話しことばで使われ、二十世紀末から文章でも増えた用法〕 Meikyo: 《主に話し言葉で》〔俗〕 Smk: 〔口頭語的表現〕 Additional usage data (BCCWJ being the largest, and CEJC the smallest corpus of the three; obtained using 中納言): BCCWJ = 現代日本語書き言葉均衡コーパス ~104mil words CSJ = 日本語話し言葉コーパス ~7mil words CEJC = 日本語日常会話コーパス ~4mil words なので Corpus; Sentence initial(接続詞); Non-sentence initial(連語) BCCWJ; 1520; 28176 CSJ; 105; 1566 CEJC; 146; 333 だから Corpus; Sentence initial(接続詞); Non-sentence initial(連語) BCCWJ; 15041; 44070 CSJ; 1838; 2546 CEJC; 5858; 5085 . |
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| Comments: | First of all, なので isn't a parallel to から, but to だから. The only difference being that ので takes the 連体形 and から the 終止形, hence it not being だので. There are really two cases to distinguish here. 1. なので as an conjunctive expression arising from the 連体形 of copula だ after nouns and な adjectives and the 連体形 bound conjunctive particle ので. This is only in references because it's not as obvious. 2. なので as a single conjunction used *at sentence beginning* like だから, which is a rather new usage as indicated by multiple references. The corpus data further substantiates what the references have already established: - なので as a 接続詞, i.e. at sentence beginning, is far less common than だから in the same position. In total counts and especially in relation to non-sentence initial usage - this also indicates more recent development for that sense in なので as it is not yet well represented in the existing corpi - だから is more common than なので in spoken language - the sentence initial usage being higher than the non-sentence initial usage, in CEJC, is a good indicator for だから sense 3 in the pastebin, as such connotations are far easier supplied using tone - this potentially also speaks for the difference in objectivity, and subsequently formality, outlined in references - non-sentence initial なので is less frequently used in daily conversation than だから Though technically not necessary, multiple references have an entry for なので in non-sentence intial position, i.e. case one of the above. I believe it's probably worthwhile to have in a dictionary mainly catering towards foreigners learning the language, so as to not lead to ungrammaticalities. I think the two respective pairs and all four entries, から・だから and ので・なので, can be improved and aligned for consistency. In the pastebin below I have a proposal with references for each of the four. I thought it'd be way less messy than starting four separate edits at the same time. https://pastebin.com/hesz2mKY I don't know if there's a way to enable others to participate in editing a paste there, probably not. But comments can be posted. |
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| 6. | A 2025-06-14 07:25:45 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | OK |
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| (show/hide 5 older log entries) | ||
| 1. |
[exp,conj]
《after nouns or na-adjectives》 ▶ because ▶ as ▶ since ▶ so ▶ therefore
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| 2. |
[conj]
[col]
《at sentence beginning》 ▶ because of that ▶ therefore ▶ accordingly ▶ consequently ▶ on those grounds ▶ that is why ▶ for that reason |
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| 11. | A* 2026-01-02 15:42:06 Sombrero1 | |
| Refs: | References below
I also checked for sentences, if I didn't miss any there are:
For sense one
303164_100534
303133_100565
303132_100566
303130_100568
303002_100695
303001_100696
301349_100712
For sense two
/
. |
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| Comments: | This time I was the one missing the reply, I just now spotted it. >The only thing I'd note is that the sentence-initial senses should probably come second, not first. After taking another look at the corpus counts I provided back then, this seems reasonable. I'll now submit my proposed changes to なので and ので as edits so it's easier for everyone to supplement or amend them. |
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| Diff: | @@ -6,0 +7,3 @@ +<r_ele> +<reb>なんで</reb> +</r_ele> @@ -9 +12 @@ -<pos>&prt;</pos> +<pos>&conj;</pos> @@ -11 +14 @@ -<s_inf>following a noun or na-adjective</s_inf> +<s_inf>after nouns or na-adjectives</s_inf> @@ -15,0 +19,13 @@ +<gloss>therefore</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&conj;</pos> +<misc>&col;</misc> +<s_inf>at sentence beginning</s_inf> +<gloss>because of that</gloss> +<gloss>therefore</gloss> +<gloss>accordingly</gloss> +<gloss>consequently</gloss> +<gloss>on those grounds</gloss> +<gloss>that is why</gloss> +<gloss>for that reason</gloss> |
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| 10. | A* 2025-12-21 21:00:26 Sean McBroom <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | I apologize, I must have misread parts of your proposal, because I didn't even notice the pastebin at first. I don't have any real issue with splitting out separate senses for sentence-initial usage. The only thing I'd note is that the sentence-initial senses should probably come second, not first. For the だから entry in particular, I'd also avoid repeating "so" and "therefore," and I'm not entirely convinced by some of the more adverbial-sounding glosses. "That's why" and "for that reason" feel like a better tonal match though. |
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| 9. | A* 2025-12-21 14:53:47 Sombrero1 | |
| Refs: | *1)Meikyo: [接]〔新〕前に述べたことを理由として、その帰結を導く意を表す。
「明日から早朝練習だ。なので、早く寝た方がいいよ」
Please note that this differs from the Meikyo reference posted below, as this is from the third edition. Which I didn't yet have at the time of writing my initial submission.
*2)Shinsen:[連語]〔断定の助動詞「だ」の連体形「な」に接続助詞「ので」がついたもの〕原因・理由をあらわす。…だから。
「大事なこと━、もう一度言います」
. |
|
| Comments: | My point and proposal wasn't about your note in particular. Though I appreciate someone finally nudging it, as I'd somewhat forgotten about it myself. >"I thought that the usage of だから at the beginning of a sentence would be obvious, but I can see how there could be confusion, since なので is almost never used in that position." What exactly are you referring to here? I don't quite understand. The point is that for both だから and なので, but especially the latter, there are two "separate" use cases to look at (for だから there's also the third). For なので compare *1 and *2. I won't regurgitate everything here, since the same gist can be taken from what's already been posted below. Just to make it clear, I am proposing a 4 entry alignment of the なので・ので and だから・から pairs. They are all inconsistent right now, both with each other and with the kokugos (on top of the fact that the single sense in this current entry should have [exp,conj]). And a not insignificant amount of references take this approach. Drafts of all four entries are in the pastebin below. I totally understand why this proposal has been sitting here for this long. After all it spans four separate entries. Another factor is the, in all likelihood, massive amount of sentences that would need to be indexed and reindexed following this string of edits. I just want to note that if there is a way in which I could help working on these sentences, I'd gladly do so. As stated below, the reason I put this forward only in form of a pastebin at first, was to not make it unnecessarily messy right off the bat. However, as enough time has passed now in my eyes, I'm going to wait a bit after this reply to see if there are any new responses. And if nothing new comes in, I'll (re)draft and submit my proposed edits and see how it goes. I would begin with only two edits, the なので and ので pair, to set things in motion. |
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| 8. | A* 2025-12-20 06:37:12 Sean McBroom <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | I've only just seen this, and I apologize for not responding sooner. I thought that the usage of だから at the beginning of a sentence would be obvious, but I can see how there could be confusion, since なので is almost never used in that position. I'm just not sure how to explain that simply in a note. Maybe the entry for だから is already enough, since it clearly has a different meaning than なので? Maybe we could move up "that's why", "for that reason" on that entry? |
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| 7. | A* 2025-08-05 19:07:25 Sombrero1 | |
| Refs: | Shinsen, sankoku, etc. : ㊀連語〔断定の助動詞「だ」の連体形「な」に接続助詞「ので」がついたもの〕原因・理由をあらわす。…だから。「大事なこと━、もう一度言います」 参考くだけた話しことばでは「なんで」となる。 ㊁ナ接続前の文の内容を原因・理由として起こる結果を次の文で述べるときの言い方。だから。それで。「今日は仕事が休みだ。━、朝寝坊ができた」 参考「なので」は「だから」に比べて新しく使われ始めた接続詞で、書きことばとしてはまだ十分には浸透していない。 Sankoku: なんで〔話〕 Multiple references note that sentence initial usage of なので is rather colloquial compared to だから Sankoku: 〔話しことばで使われ、二十世紀末から文章でも増えた用法〕 Meikyo: 《主に話し言葉で》〔俗〕 Smk: 〔口頭語的表現〕 Additional usage data (BCCWJ being the largest, and CEJC the smallest corpus of the three; obtained using 中納言): BCCWJ = 現代日本語書き言葉均衡コーパス ~104mil words CSJ = 日本語話し言葉コーパス ~7mil words CEJC = 日本語日常会話コーパス ~4mil words なので Corpus; Sentence initial(接続詞); Non-sentence initial(連語) BCCWJ; 1520; 28176 CSJ; 105; 1566 CEJC; 146; 333 だから Corpus; Sentence initial(接続詞); Non-sentence initial(連語) BCCWJ; 15041; 44070 CSJ; 1838; 2546 CEJC; 5858; 5085 . |
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| Comments: | First of all, なので isn't a parallel to から, but to だから. The only difference being that ので takes the 連体形 and から the 終止形, hence it not being だので. There are really two cases to distinguish here. 1. なので as an conjunctive expression arising from the 連体形 of copula だ after nouns and な adjectives and the 連体形 bound conjunctive particle ので. This is only in references because it's not as obvious. 2. なので as a single conjunction used *at sentence beginning* like だから, which is a rather new usage as indicated by multiple references. The corpus data further substantiates what the references have already established: - なので as a 接続詞, i.e. at sentence beginning, is far less common than だから in the same position. In total counts and especially in relation to non-sentence initial usage - this also indicates more recent development for that sense in なので as it is not yet well represented in the existing corpi - だから is more common than なので in spoken language - the sentence initial usage being higher than the non-sentence initial usage, in CEJC, is a good indicator for だから sense 3 in the pastebin, as such connotations are far easier supplied using tone - this potentially also speaks for the difference in objectivity, and subsequently formality, outlined in references - non-sentence initial なので is less frequently used in daily conversation than だから Though technically not necessary, multiple references have an entry for なので in non-sentence intial position, i.e. case one of the above. I believe it's probably worthwhile to have in a dictionary mainly catering towards foreigners learning the language, so as to not lead to ungrammaticalities. I think the two respective pairs and all four entries, から・だから and ので・なので, can be improved and aligned for consistency. In the pastebin below I have a proposal with references for each of the four. I thought it'd be way less messy than starting four separate edits at the same time. https://pastebin.com/hesz2mKY I don't know if there's a way to enable others to participate in editing a paste there, probably not. But comments can be posted. |
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| (show/hide 6 older log entries) | ||
| 1. |
[aux-v]
《after the -nai stem of a verb and as せず for する (all senses); continuative form of ぬ》 ▶ (does) not ..., and ▶ (does) not ..., so ▶ not (doing) ▶ without (doing)
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| 2. |
[aux-v]
[arch]
▶ not
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| 27. | A 2025-12-20 10:04:51 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | I think I'll pin this version (mainly to reduce the queue), then reopen for a while. I'm still uncertain about [aux-v] cf [aux]. |
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| 26. | A* 2025-12-15 09:21:47 Sombrero1 | |
| Comments: | >Jokes aside, you can take that approach - but this is entirely a matter of philosophy wherein ぬ is regarded as the flexible original and all other forms as immutable variants. As a rule, dictionary forms are chosen primarily by pragmatism and not by any morphological criteria i.e. ぬ and ず are both inflections of the same lexeme, which we call ぬ by convention - but that does not mean that ぬ turns into ず or vice-versa, or that they do not. You *can* posit that only ぬ inflects, but it is very hard to actually prove it. That's a good argument. I hadn't really thought in that direction, and I doubt I could prove that. I think I'll concede here. I have also read the rest of your reply, but I'll refrain from engaging in further discussion on those topics. Since it's a somewhat off-topic discussion (which I know I have started). I'll keep it in my head as food for thought. |
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| 25. | A* 2025-12-13 06:54:06 Non | |
| Refs: | Daijirin, Shinmeikai. Daijirin entry for ず*: 『(助動) 1 現代語の打ち消しの助動詞「ぬ」の連用形。→ぬ(助動) 2 ず(ざら)・ず(ざり)・ず・ぬ(ざる)・ね(ざれ)・ざれ 古語の打ち消しの助動詞。用言およびある種の助動詞の未然形に接続する。打ち消しの意を表す。ない。ぬ。』 The(助動)at the top applies to the entire entry. *The numbers are mine; the numerals used by Daijirin for its senses are images and cannot be copied so I had to replace them. |
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| Comments: | "My idea was that sense one is not something that inflects, it's the 連用形 of ぬ *singled out* to have its separate sense. Thus it does not inflect, and is basically used as a 未然形-bound 接続助詞." ずに, ずんば and entirety of the ざり paradigm found dead in the streets of the 平安 period. Jokes aside, you can take that approach - but this is entirely a matter of philosophy wherein ぬ is regarded as the flexible original and all other forms as immutable variants. As a rule, dictionary forms are chosen primarily by pragmatism and not by any morphological criteria i.e. ぬ and ず are both inflections of the same lexeme, which we call ぬ by convention - but that does not mean that ぬ turns into ず or vice-versa, or that they do not. You *can* posit that only ぬ inflects, but it is very hard to actually prove it. "The kokugos that perform this same split do not assign a PoS tag to the 連用形 ず sense." Well, the kokugos do not have the constraint that they need a PoS tag or else they get a syntax error. In any case, Daijirin and Shinmeikai have both senses under 助動詞; since we need a tag I still think [aux-v] is best. "And I do remember seeing that style of note in another entry (it might have been Non there too, I don't quite recall)" I do think the only instances of a ~ between a stem and suffix are the ones I edited (and I think they are all the せ~ 未然形 + suffix, courtesy of "-nai stem") but the practice of prefixing a ~ to suffixes, etc. in notes predates me by several years. I first used the intermediary ~ in either the (ら)れる or (さ)せる entry, which already had a ~ before I added the stem. "This perhaps isn't very relevant to the ず discussion in particular, but I was under the assumption that there is syntactical difference between these two. Is there not?" That depends on the level of morphosyntactical analysis and the school of thought/philosophy being employed to execute it, as they define where we want our morpheme boundaries to be and how the syntax trees are structured. If we define our boundaries to be something relatively simple such as semantic content and grammatical function, both are identical in that they consist of a base content verb + a suffix adding grammatical information: せぬ = se-nu = do-NEG.NPS している = shite-iru = do-CONT.NPS The morphological structure may then be reflected in the syntax tree (since the stems せ and し, as well as て, have neither semantic content nor overt grammatical function in their current use, they are ignored by this analysis). Finer levels may take every single root, meaningless stem and particle, or even concepts not overtly realised into their glosses: せぬ = s-e-n-u-∅ = do-LK-NEG-NPS-PRED している = s-i-て-i-る-∅ = do-LK-PTCL-CONT-NPS-PRED At this point they are no longer identical, but the very categories of 助動詞 and 補助動詞 are no longer consistent within themselves either (if they ever were to begin with). The truth is that conventional grammatical categories are a compromise between accuracy and practicity: are 助動詞 and 補助動詞 the same? At a certain degree of compromise, yes; at another, no. And as you play around with the north of your compass, they may grow as far apart from themselves as they do from each other. CONT=Continuous aspect LK= Interfix, here the stem's vowel. NEG=Negative NPS=Non-past PTCL=Particle PRED=Predicative |
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| 24. | A* 2025-12-12 21:05:50 Sombrero1 | |
| Refs: | Meikyo: ず [打ち消しの助動詞「ぬ」の連用形] ❶打ち消しの意を伴って、文を中止したり、副詞的修飾をしたりする。…ないで。 [second sense excluded here] Sankoku: ず ◇ 口語の否定の助動詞「ぬ」の連用形。 「何も買わ━、帰った」 [second sense excluded here] ↑ Oukoku and Smk do the same . |
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| Comments: | > Plus, it is important to distinguish between suffixes that inflect from inflectional suffixes: most 助詞 like the case-marking particles, the prohibitive な, etc. are also inflectional suffixes. That's true, I didn't phrase that clearly enough. I meant "suffixes that inflect". ーーー >A 補助動詞 is functionally identical to a 助動詞, the difference being lexicography and etymology: [...] This perhaps isn't very relevant to the ず discussion in particular, but I was under the assumption that there is syntactical difference between these two. Is there not? ーーー >The [aux] tag by itself is a tad nebulous, it is probably best reserved for such words that even standard Kokugos fail to classify or disagree as to the category. With [aux-v] it is at least clear that it is an auxiliary that inflects. My idea was that sense one is not something that inflects, it's the 連用形 of ぬ *singled out* to have its separate sense. Thus it does not inflect, and is basically used as a 未然形-bound 接続助詞. The kokugos that perform this same split do not assign a PoS tag to the 連用形 ず sense. See the quoted references (I saw that daijr does have 〘助動〙, but I'm pretty sure that's because daijr doesn't use split PoS tags like this in the same entry? I may be wrong though) That's why I suggested not using [aux-v] here, *if* we define [aux-v] as something that inflects. ーーー As for the discussion about the note format, I don't have any particular opinion on it. However, the arguments brought forth by Non seem reasonable to me, after all we have a sufficiently explanatory entry for "サ変". And I do remember seeing that style of note in another entry (it might have been Non there too, I don't quite recall) |
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| 23. | A* 2025-12-12 06:35:48 Non | |
| Comments: | "I don't like the use of サ変 in the note and I'm not sure why there's a tilde between せ and ず." サ変 was chosen over suru-class or something of the sort as it is mildly shorter and refers to the conjugation class as a whole rather than する singularly. While す・する and サ変 are largely synonymous since the former and its compounds very likely account for 99.9% of the conjugation class, there are very few verbs that occupy that 0.1% position wherein they have the suru-class paradigm, despite having no connection to the actual suru. Off the top of my head I can recall 御座す(おはす), 坐す(います) and まらする;the former probably began as a either a 二段 or 四段 from 座す(わす) while the latter two were originally 四段 and 二段 respectively, and only later became サ変. As for the tilde, it is there to separate the stem from the suffix, modelled after a handful of entries that have a tilde in front of an auxiliary, compound, set-phrase, etc. when it appears in a note. Is it strictly necessary? Probably not. But personal experience tells me that if something can be interpreted wrongly, it will. And so I reckon there will be at least one person who will read "after the -nai stem of a verb and as せず for する" as ず sprouting a せ in front of it and then attaching to する as しせず. Cursed be the -nai stem... All in all, I would rather keep it. "I'm now very well aware that "auxiliary verb" is a rather problematic term for what are in essence inflectional suffixes. The overlap between "auxiliary verb" in indo-european languages and the term 助動詞 in 国語文法 is rather minimal. It would much rather be the 補助動詞 falling under that notion." We are mixing terminology here; "auxiliary verb" in the context of Japanese refers to either 助動詞 and/or both 補助動詞 and 助動詞, it has little to do with what the term may mean in other languages. Plus, it is important to distinguish between suffixes that inflect from inflectional suffixes: most 助詞 like the case-marking particles, the prohibitive な, etc. are also inflectional suffixes. 助動詞 Are specifically inflectional suffixes that - like 動詞 - have their own inflectional paradigm, thence the name. A 補助動詞 is functionally identical to a 助動詞, the difference being lexicography and etymology: 補助動詞 are bound morphemes considered to be a single lexeme with the unbound morpheme they derive from, a 助動詞 either has no known associated unbound morpheme (ぬ) or has one but has since evolved into its own lexeme (ます ultimately comes from 参る). "It is probably best to reduce this just to [aux] for the time being." The [aux] tag by itself is a tad nebulous, it is probably best reserved for such words that even standard Kokugos fail to classify or disagree as to the category. With [aux-v] it is at least clear that it is an auxiliary that inflects. |
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| (show/hide 22 older log entries) | ||
| 1. |
[aux-v]
《after the -nai stem of a verb and as せず for する (all senses); continuative form of ぬ》 ▶ (does) not ..., and ▶ (does) not ..., so ▶ not (doing) ▶ without (doing)
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| 2. |
[aux-v]
[arch]
▶ not
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| 28. | A* 2025-12-20 10:05:13 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 27. | A 2025-12-20 10:04:51 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | I think I'll pin this version (mainly to reduce the queue), then reopen for a while. I'm still uncertain about [aux-v] cf [aux]. |
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| 26. | A* 2025-12-15 09:21:47 Sombrero1 | |
| Comments: | >Jokes aside, you can take that approach - but this is entirely a matter of philosophy wherein ぬ is regarded as the flexible original and all other forms as immutable variants. As a rule, dictionary forms are chosen primarily by pragmatism and not by any morphological criteria i.e. ぬ and ず are both inflections of the same lexeme, which we call ぬ by convention - but that does not mean that ぬ turns into ず or vice-versa, or that they do not. You *can* posit that only ぬ inflects, but it is very hard to actually prove it. That's a good argument. I hadn't really thought in that direction, and I doubt I could prove that. I think I'll concede here. I have also read the rest of your reply, but I'll refrain from engaging in further discussion on those topics. Since it's a somewhat off-topic discussion (which I know I have started). I'll keep it in my head as food for thought. |
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| 25. | A* 2025-12-13 06:54:06 Non | |
| Refs: | Daijirin, Shinmeikai. Daijirin entry for ず*: 『(助動) 1 現代語の打ち消しの助動詞「ぬ」の連用形。→ぬ(助動) 2 ず(ざら)・ず(ざり)・ず・ぬ(ざる)・ね(ざれ)・ざれ 古語の打ち消しの助動詞。用言およびある種の助動詞の未然形に接続する。打ち消しの意を表す。ない。ぬ。』 The(助動)at the top applies to the entire entry. *The numbers are mine; the numerals used by Daijirin for its senses are images and cannot be copied so I had to replace them. |
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| Comments: | "My idea was that sense one is not something that inflects, it's the 連用形 of ぬ *singled out* to have its separate sense. Thus it does not inflect, and is basically used as a 未然形-bound 接続助詞." ずに, ずんば and entirety of the ざり paradigm found dead in the streets of the 平安 period. Jokes aside, you can take that approach - but this is entirely a matter of philosophy wherein ぬ is regarded as the flexible original and all other forms as immutable variants. As a rule, dictionary forms are chosen primarily by pragmatism and not by any morphological criteria i.e. ぬ and ず are both inflections of the same lexeme, which we call ぬ by convention - but that does not mean that ぬ turns into ず or vice-versa, or that they do not. You *can* posit that only ぬ inflects, but it is very hard to actually prove it. "The kokugos that perform this same split do not assign a PoS tag to the 連用形 ず sense." Well, the kokugos do not have the constraint that they need a PoS tag or else they get a syntax error. In any case, Daijirin and Shinmeikai have both senses under 助動詞; since we need a tag I still think [aux-v] is best. "And I do remember seeing that style of note in another entry (it might have been Non there too, I don't quite recall)" I do think the only instances of a ~ between a stem and suffix are the ones I edited (and I think they are all the せ~ 未然形 + suffix, courtesy of "-nai stem") but the practice of prefixing a ~ to suffixes, etc. in notes predates me by several years. I first used the intermediary ~ in either the (ら)れる or (さ)せる entry, which already had a ~ before I added the stem. "This perhaps isn't very relevant to the ず discussion in particular, but I was under the assumption that there is syntactical difference between these two. Is there not?" That depends on the level of morphosyntactical analysis and the school of thought/philosophy being employed to execute it, as they define where we want our morpheme boundaries to be and how the syntax trees are structured. If we define our boundaries to be something relatively simple such as semantic content and grammatical function, both are identical in that they consist of a base content verb + a suffix adding grammatical information: せぬ = se-nu = do-NEG.NPS している = shite-iru = do-CONT.NPS The morphological structure may then be reflected in the syntax tree (since the stems せ and し, as well as て, have neither semantic content nor overt grammatical function in their current use, they are ignored by this analysis). Finer levels may take every single root, meaningless stem and particle, or even concepts not overtly realised into their glosses: せぬ = s-e-n-u-∅ = do-LK-NEG-NPS-PRED している = s-i-て-i-る-∅ = do-LK-PTCL-CONT-NPS-PRED At this point they are no longer identical, but the very categories of 助動詞 and 補助動詞 are no longer consistent within themselves either (if they ever were to begin with). The truth is that conventional grammatical categories are a compromise between accuracy and practicity: are 助動詞 and 補助動詞 the same? At a certain degree of compromise, yes; at another, no. And as you play around with the north of your compass, they may grow as far apart from themselves as they do from each other. CONT=Continuous aspect LK= Interfix, here the stem's vowel. NEG=Negative NPS=Non-past PTCL=Particle PRED=Predicative |
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| 24. | A* 2025-12-12 21:05:50 Sombrero1 | |
| Refs: | Meikyo: ず [打ち消しの助動詞「ぬ」の連用形] ❶打ち消しの意を伴って、文を中止したり、副詞的修飾をしたりする。…ないで。 [second sense excluded here] Sankoku: ず ◇ 口語の否定の助動詞「ぬ」の連用形。 「何も買わ━、帰った」 [second sense excluded here] ↑ Oukoku and Smk do the same . |
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| Comments: | > Plus, it is important to distinguish between suffixes that inflect from inflectional suffixes: most 助詞 like the case-marking particles, the prohibitive な, etc. are also inflectional suffixes. That's true, I didn't phrase that clearly enough. I meant "suffixes that inflect". ーーー >A 補助動詞 is functionally identical to a 助動詞, the difference being lexicography and etymology: [...] This perhaps isn't very relevant to the ず discussion in particular, but I was under the assumption that there is syntactical difference between these two. Is there not? ーーー >The [aux] tag by itself is a tad nebulous, it is probably best reserved for such words that even standard Kokugos fail to classify or disagree as to the category. With [aux-v] it is at least clear that it is an auxiliary that inflects. My idea was that sense one is not something that inflects, it's the 連用形 of ぬ *singled out* to have its separate sense. Thus it does not inflect, and is basically used as a 未然形-bound 接続助詞. The kokugos that perform this same split do not assign a PoS tag to the 連用形 ず sense. See the quoted references (I saw that daijr does have 〘助動〙, but I'm pretty sure that's because daijr doesn't use split PoS tags like this in the same entry? I may be wrong though) That's why I suggested not using [aux-v] here, *if* we define [aux-v] as something that inflects. ーーー As for the discussion about the note format, I don't have any particular opinion on it. However, the arguments brought forth by Non seem reasonable to me, after all we have a sufficiently explanatory entry for "サ変". And I do remember seeing that style of note in another entry (it might have been Non there too, I don't quite recall) |
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| (show/hide 23 older log entries) | ||
| 1. |
[aux-v]
《after the -nai stem of a verb and for サ変 as せ~ず (all senses); continuative form of ぬ》 ▶ (does) not ..., and ▶ (does) not ..., so ▶ not (doing) ▶ without (doing)
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| 2. |
[aux-v]
[arch]
▶ not
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| 29. | A* 2025-12-22 10:52:16 Non | |
| Comments: | PoS tags aside, I still would like the usage note reverted to its prior version, with the ~ after せ and サ変 instead of する. Since the argumentation for that is now buried under a few walls of text, I will quote it here for reading convenience: 『サ変 was chosen over suru-class or something of the sort as it is mildly shorter and refers to the conjugation class as a whole rather than する singularly. While す・する and サ変 are largely synonymous since the former and its compounds very likely account for 99.9% of the conjugation class, there are very few verbs that occupy that 0.1% position wherein they have the suru-class paradigm, despite having no connection to the actual suru. Off the top of my head I can recall 御座す(おはす), 坐す(います) and まらする;the former probably began as a either a 二段 or 四段 from 座す(わす) while the latter two were originally 四段 and 二段 respectively, and only later became サ変』 (Shamelessly adding to the above, "サ変" also explicitly includes the classical す while just "する" does not; which in hindsight is far more important than the obscure verbs I dug up) 『As for the tilde, it is there to separate the stem from the suffix... Is it strictly necessary? Probably not. But personal experience tells me that if something can be interpreted wrongly, it will. And so I reckon there will be at least one person who will read "after the -nai stem of a verb and as せず for する" as ず sprouting a せ in front of it and then attaching to する as しせず』 |
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| Diff: | @@ -11 +11 @@ -<s_inf>after the -nai stem of a verb and as せず for する (all senses); continuative form of ぬ</s_inf> +<s_inf>after the -nai stem of a verb and for サ変 as せ~ず (all senses); continuative form of ぬ</s_inf> |
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| 28. | A* 2025-12-20 10:05:13 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 27. | A 2025-12-20 10:04:51 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | I think I'll pin this version (mainly to reduce the queue), then reopen for a while. I'm still uncertain about [aux-v] cf [aux]. |
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| 26. | A* 2025-12-15 09:21:47 Sombrero1 | |
| Comments: | >Jokes aside, you can take that approach - but this is entirely a matter of philosophy wherein ぬ is regarded as the flexible original and all other forms as immutable variants. As a rule, dictionary forms are chosen primarily by pragmatism and not by any morphological criteria i.e. ぬ and ず are both inflections of the same lexeme, which we call ぬ by convention - but that does not mean that ぬ turns into ず or vice-versa, or that they do not. You *can* posit that only ぬ inflects, but it is very hard to actually prove it. That's a good argument. I hadn't really thought in that direction, and I doubt I could prove that. I think I'll concede here. I have also read the rest of your reply, but I'll refrain from engaging in further discussion on those topics. Since it's a somewhat off-topic discussion (which I know I have started). I'll keep it in my head as food for thought. |
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| 25. | A* 2025-12-13 06:54:06 Non | |
| Refs: | Daijirin, Shinmeikai. Daijirin entry for ず*: 『(助動) 1 現代語の打ち消しの助動詞「ぬ」の連用形。→ぬ(助動) 2 ず(ざら)・ず(ざり)・ず・ぬ(ざる)・ね(ざれ)・ざれ 古語の打ち消しの助動詞。用言およびある種の助動詞の未然形に接続する。打ち消しの意を表す。ない。ぬ。』 The(助動)at the top applies to the entire entry. *The numbers are mine; the numerals used by Daijirin for its senses are images and cannot be copied so I had to replace them. |
|
| Comments: | "My idea was that sense one is not something that inflects, it's the 連用形 of ぬ *singled out* to have its separate sense. Thus it does not inflect, and is basically used as a 未然形-bound 接続助詞." ずに, ずんば and entirety of the ざり paradigm found dead in the streets of the 平安 period. Jokes aside, you can take that approach - but this is entirely a matter of philosophy wherein ぬ is regarded as the flexible original and all other forms as immutable variants. As a rule, dictionary forms are chosen primarily by pragmatism and not by any morphological criteria i.e. ぬ and ず are both inflections of the same lexeme, which we call ぬ by convention - but that does not mean that ぬ turns into ず or vice-versa, or that they do not. You *can* posit that only ぬ inflects, but it is very hard to actually prove it. "The kokugos that perform this same split do not assign a PoS tag to the 連用形 ず sense." Well, the kokugos do not have the constraint that they need a PoS tag or else they get a syntax error. In any case, Daijirin and Shinmeikai have both senses under 助動詞; since we need a tag I still think [aux-v] is best. "And I do remember seeing that style of note in another entry (it might have been Non there too, I don't quite recall)" I do think the only instances of a ~ between a stem and suffix are the ones I edited (and I think they are all the せ~ 未然形 + suffix, courtesy of "-nai stem") but the practice of prefixing a ~ to suffixes, etc. in notes predates me by several years. I first used the intermediary ~ in either the (ら)れる or (さ)せる entry, which already had a ~ before I added the stem. "This perhaps isn't very relevant to the ず discussion in particular, but I was under the assumption that there is syntactical difference between these two. Is there not?" That depends on the level of morphosyntactical analysis and the school of thought/philosophy being employed to execute it, as they define where we want our morpheme boundaries to be and how the syntax trees are structured. If we define our boundaries to be something relatively simple such as semantic content and grammatical function, both are identical in that they consist of a base content verb + a suffix adding grammatical information: せぬ = se-nu = do-NEG.NPS している = shite-iru = do-CONT.NPS The morphological structure may then be reflected in the syntax tree (since the stems せ and し, as well as て, have neither semantic content nor overt grammatical function in their current use, they are ignored by this analysis). Finer levels may take every single root, meaningless stem and particle, or even concepts not overtly realised into their glosses: せぬ = s-e-n-u-∅ = do-LK-NEG-NPS-PRED している = s-i-て-i-る-∅ = do-LK-PTCL-CONT-NPS-PRED At this point they are no longer identical, but the very categories of 助動詞 and 補助動詞 are no longer consistent within themselves either (if they ever were to begin with). The truth is that conventional grammatical categories are a compromise between accuracy and practicity: are 助動詞 and 補助動詞 the same? At a certain degree of compromise, yes; at another, no. And as you play around with the north of your compass, they may grow as far apart from themselves as they do from each other. CONT=Continuous aspect LK= Interfix, here the stem's vowel. NEG=Negative NPS=Non-past PTCL=Particle PRED=Predicative |
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| (show/hide 24 older log entries) | ||
| 1. |
[n]
{physics}
▶ canal ray ▶ anode ray
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| 3. | A 2025-12-20 22:32:17 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
| Diff: | @@ -12,0 +13 @@ +<field>&physics;</field> @@ -13,0 +15 @@ +<gloss>anode ray</gloss> |
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| 2. | A 2017-08-09 23:54:31 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 1. | A* 2017-08-06 20:41:19 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | gg5, daijs, eij |
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| 1. |
[n]
{chemistry,physics}
▶ mass spectrometry |
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| 4. | A 2025-12-21 04:25:48 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 3. | A* 2025-12-20 23:33:09 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
| Diff: | @@ -11,0 +12,2 @@ +<field>&chem;</field> +<field>&physics;</field> |
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| 2. | A 2018-09-04 16:04:21 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | eij |
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| 1. | A* 2018-09-04 12:19:27 huixing | |
| Refs: | https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/質量分析法 |
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| 1. |
[exp,v1]
[id]
▶ to strike a chord ▶ to tug at one's heartstrings ▶ to resonate |
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| 4. | A 2025-12-20 20:28:59 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 3. | A* 2025-12-20 15:00:26 parfait8 | |
| Refs: | Google N-gram Corpus Counts ╭─ーーーーーー─┬────────┬───────╮ │ 琴線に触れる │ 58,203 │ 87.7% │ │ 琴線にふれる │ 8,200 │ 12.3% │ add ╰─ーーーーーー─┴────────┴───────╯ |
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| Diff: | @@ -5,0 +6,4 @@ +</k_ele> +<k_ele> +<keb>琴線にふれる</keb> +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> |
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| 2. | A 2018-09-21 02:21:05 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | GG5, etc. |
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| Comments: | Seems to be from 心の琴線に触れる. |
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| 1. | A* 2018-09-20 16:33:17 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | daijs eij |
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| 1. |
[exp,v5r]
[col]
▶ to get excited ▶ to get hyped up ▶ to become happy ▶ to get in a good mood
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| 4. | A 2025-12-20 06:45:22 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 3. | A* 2025-12-19 15:35:23 brian.krznarich@gmail.com <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | reordered senses at xref |
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| Diff: | @@ -13,2 +13,2 @@ -<xref type="see" seq="1080970">テンション・2</xref> -<xref type="see" seq="1080970">テンション・2</xref> +<xref type="see" seq="1080970">テンション・1</xref> +<xref type="see" seq="1080970">テンション・1</xref> |
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| 2. | A 2018-10-24 00:14:08 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | Should indicate it's not the first sense. |
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| Diff: | @@ -12,0 +13 @@ +<xref type="see" seq="1080970">テンション・2</xref> |
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| 1. | A* 2018-10-23 03:04:41 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | eij, 実用日本語表現辞典 mentioned as an example of sense 2 in daijs' テンション entry g ng テンションが上がる 50751 テンションが下がる 19993 テンションが高まる 1204 |
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| Comments: | I added "col" since we have this usage of テンション tagged as col (I think I might have been the tagger) |
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| 1. |
[n]
[abbr]
▶ nori bento |
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| 2. |
[n]
[col]
▶ heavily redacted document |
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| 5. | A 2025-12-20 09:52:03 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | More [col] I think. |
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| Diff: | @@ -20 +20 @@ -<misc>&sl;</misc> +<misc>&col;</misc> |
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| 4. | A* 2025-12-20 07:04:03 | |
| Refs: | https://www.weblio.jp/content/のり弁 https://www.asahi.com/articles/DA3S16243195.html https://www.newsweekjapan.jp/stories/world/2018/03/post-9809_1.php https://jbpress.ismedia.jp/articles/-/75895 https://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q10300574535 |
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| Diff: | @@ -16,0 +17,5 @@ +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&n;</pos> +<misc>&sl;</misc> +<gloss>heavily redacted document</gloss> |
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| 3. | A 2019-02-18 11:20:20 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | 海苔弁当 3371 海苔弁 7818 のり弁 21813 |
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| Diff: | @@ -5 +5 @@ -<keb>海苔弁</keb> +<keb>のり弁</keb> @@ -8 +8 @@ -<keb>のり弁</keb> +<keb>海苔弁</keb> |
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| 2. | A* 2019-02-17 02:32:27 Nicolas Maia <...address hidden...> | |
| Diff: | @@ -5 +5,4 @@ -<keb>海苔弁:のり弁</keb> +<keb>海苔弁</keb> +</k_ele> +<k_ele> +<keb>のり弁</keb> |
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| 1. | A* 2019-02-16 22:31:57 Nicolas Maia <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | https://www.google.com/search?hl=ja&ei=2I5oXIK4LIuW8wWt65tg&q=海苔弁&oq=海苔弁&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i67l6j0l2.33032.41549..42031...2.0..0.168.2187.2j16......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i4j33i160j0i5i30j0i4i37j0i4i10i37.5WN-bz2ijnQ https://www.google.com/search?hl=ja&q=のり弁 https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/海苔弁当 |
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| 1. |
[n,adj-na]
Source lang:
eng "low tension"
▶ low spirits ▶ lack of enthusiasm ▶ lack of motivation ▶ having no drive (to do something)
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| 2. |
[n]
[rare]
{electricity, elec. eng.}
▶ low voltage (e.g. circuit) ▶ low tension (e.g. current) |
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| 4. | A 2025-12-20 10:49:18 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 3. | A* 2025-12-20 10:32:24 Sombrero1 | |
| Refs: | Google N-gram Corpus Counts ╭─ーーーーーーーー─┬────────┬───────╮ │ ローテンション │ 40,122 │ 75.9% │ │ ローテンションで │ 7,439 │ 14.1% │ │ ローテンションな │ 5,319 │ 10.1% │ ╰─ーーーーーーーー─┴────────┴───────╯ Google N-gram Corpus Counts ╭─ーーーーーーーーー─┬───┬───────╮ │ ローテンション電源 │ 0 │ NaN% │ │ ローテンション回路 │ 0 │ NaN% │ ╰─ーーーーーーーーー─┴───┴───────╯ Daijs: [名・形動]《和 low+tension》意欲がわかない状態。やる気が起きない状態。また、おとなしかったり内気だったりする態度やようす。 「―な話し方」⇔ハイテンション。 Pixiv lists it as a 和製英語 as well Massif examples are all for the "low spirits" sense: https://massif.la/ja/search?q=ローテンション This is the updated link to what dine posted in 2023, an incredible resource. I never knew of this website! https://nikkoku-tomonokai.japanknowledge.jp/detail.php?id=135750 Note that the reference there for the [elec] sense is from a 100year-old work (『常識電気学』 1918年12月18日 関口定伸) . |
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| Comments: | Aligning with ハイテンション, though I kept [n] first here for sense one as [adj-na] doesn't appear to be as dominant here. I think switching orders and having a [rare] tag is reasonable. Sense two seems rather obscure. Same issue here with the wasei/non-wasei conflict. Have not applied the tag yet. |
|
| Diff: | @@ -12 +12,7 @@ -<gloss>low tension (as in electronics, etc.)</gloss> +<pos>&adj-na;</pos> +<xref type="see" seq="2229390">ハイテンション・1</xref> +<lsource xml:lang="eng">low tension</lsource> +<gloss>low spirits</gloss> +<gloss>lack of enthusiasm</gloss> +<gloss>lack of motivation</gloss> +<gloss>having no drive (to do something)</gloss> @@ -16,2 +22,4 @@ -<gloss>low spirits</gloss> -<gloss>lack of enthusiasm</gloss> +<field>&elec;</field> +<misc>&rare;</misc> +<gloss>low voltage (e.g. circuit)</gloss> +<gloss>low tension (e.g. current)</gloss> |
|
| 2. | A 2023-04-03 05:26:46 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | ハイテンション 580376 ローテンション 40122 |
|
| Comments: | I guess the relative frequencies have a lot to do with it. |
|
| 1. | A* 2023-03-23 14:19:44 dine | |
| Refs: | ローテンション 40122 ロー・テンション 473 sense 1: https://japanknowledge.com/tomonokai/card.html?id=135750&kw=ローテンション 〔名〕(英 low tension)低圧。また、低電圧。 https://www.monotaro.com/s/q-ローテンション/ No.SSのローテンションタイプ。16.5~18.5wt%のクロムと少量の付加的合金元素としてニッケルとモリブデンを含む。 the following are not about electronics: https://tennis.j-treasure.com/pureaero-awanai/ ピュアアエロには、ローテンションで張りすぎると難しいストリングです。 https://my-best.com/5132 ライトテンションの弦は、ローテンションとも呼ばれ、弱めの張り感が特徴です。 https://teradakazuteru.com/yurupori 「流行のローテンションでポリガット」え!?私のガットのテンション高すぎ!?緩くポリを張る! https://paprica.store/クラシックギター弦のオススメは?ナイロン弦比/ 音色としてはローテンションな分柔らかいので、サウンドに張りを求めない場合に良いでしょう。 (adj-na!) sense 2: BCCWJ example: 昨日から体調が回復し、一週間のローテンションから一気に復活! https://mamarance.com/tensyon 前向き、元気、やる気満々、きびきびしている、そんな言葉がぴったりだったと思うのですが、最近は、ローテンションぎみなのです。 in the following example (also from BCCWJ) the context is not clear: さあ、ハイリスクを承知で明日土曜日にトライするか、もしくは、ローリスク・ローテンションを覚悟で日曜にするか |
|
| Comments: | It's strange that kokugo jitens have an entry for ハイテンション but not ローテンション. I wonder if the terms could also mean "high/low mental stress". |
|
| 1. |
[n,vs,vt]
▶ tightening together with a screw ▶ screwing tightly ▶ screwing fast |
|
| 8. | A 2025-12-20 20:39:48 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | Reverso |
|
| Diff: | @@ -21,0 +22 @@ +<gloss>screwing tightly</gloss> |
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| 7. | A* 2025-12-17 22:36:03 Sombrero1 | |
| Refs: | Google N-gram Corpus Counts ╭─ーーーー─┬────────┬───────╮ │ ネジ止め │ 63,620 │ 79.3% │ │ ねじ止め │ 16,192 │ 20.2% │ │ 螺子止め │ 372 │ 0.5% │Nikkoku; add; [sK] ╰─ーーーー─┴────────┴───────╯ Nikkoku (ねじどめ): ねじを用いて固定すること。 RP has ねじ止め式 for "screw-on..." https://de.youglish.com/pronounce/ネジ止め/japanese All examples in BCCWJ and Youglish (I listened to 20ish) are -dome. Multiple examples of [vs,vt] in Youglish, and some in BCCWJ. . |
|
| Comments: | Seems like it. Judging from some of the youglish examples this could maybe also have a gloss like "screwing in, on, etc.". Might not be necessary though. Dropping ねじとめ |
|
| Diff: | @@ -9,0 +10,4 @@ +<k_ele> +<keb>螺子止め</keb> +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> +</k_ele> @@ -13,3 +16,0 @@ -<r_ele> -<reb>ねじとめ</reb> -</r_ele> @@ -17,0 +19,2 @@ +<pos>&vs;</pos> +<pos>&vt;</pos> @@ -18,0 +22 @@ +<gloss>screwing fast</gloss> |
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| 6. | A* 2025-12-17 18:45:53 <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | https://www.handscraft.jp/news/screws-screw-difference/ 「ネジ止めとは、ネジを使って部材同士を締め付ける作業のことを指します。」 |
|
| Comments: | I translate manuals that use this term and this refers to the process of tightening two things together with a screw, for example "AとBをねじ止め". The current glosses sound like they're either referring to the screw itself or to a clamp but this is not a clamping process. |
|
| Diff: | @@ -18,2 +18 @@ -<gloss>fastening screw</gloss> -<gloss>screw clamp</gloss> +<gloss>tightening together with a screw</gloss> |
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| 5. | A 2024-08-04 21:40:40 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | OK |
|
| Diff: | @@ -9,0 +10,3 @@ +<r_ele> +<reb>ねじどめ</reb> +</r_ele> |
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| 4. | A* 2024-08-04 19:17:56 mark dufour <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | google n-grams seems to suggest -dome is indeed more common, but only by a bit..? ねじとめ 200 ねじどめ 368 |
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| (show/hide 3 older log entries) | ||
| 1. |
[exp,v1]
▶ to make (someone) do |
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| 2. |
[exp,v1]
▶ to let (someone) do |
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| 3. |
[aux-v,v1]
《after the -nai stem of a verb; misuse of sense one》 ▶ auxiliary verb indicating the causative voice
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| 4. |
[aux-v,v1]
《after the -nai stem of a verb; misuse of sense two》 ▶ auxiliary verb indicating the permissive voice
|
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| 7. | A 2025-12-20 10:13:04 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | KOD (xref to しめる). |
|
| Comments: | I suspect the xref to しめる would be better on the first sense. |
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| 6. | A* 2025-12-17 16:58:00 Sombrero1 | |
| Comments: | > A third sense containing the misuse as an [aux] is probably fine, though I would add a note clarifying that it is a misuse. I've done that now. I also left out the サ変 part in the note as I don't think it's relevant here. > However, I do not think it necessary to add a note to [1] and/or [2] telling the two せしめるs apart - they have completely different meanings, unlike the させるs that are pretty much identical. Hmm, I see. Seems reasonable. |
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| Diff: | @@ -10 +9,0 @@ -<xref type="see" seq="2138460">しめる・1</xref> @@ -15,0 +15,12 @@ +<gloss>to let (someone) do</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&aux-v;</pos> +<pos>&v1;</pos> +<xref type="see" seq="2138460">しめる・1</xref> +<s_inf>after the -nai stem of a verb; misuse of sense one</s_inf> +<gloss>auxiliary verb indicating the causative voice</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&aux-v;</pos> +<pos>&v1;</pos> @@ -17 +28,2 @@ -<gloss>to let (someone) do</gloss> +<s_inf>after the -nai stem of a verb; misuse of sense two</s_inf> +<gloss>auxiliary verb indicating the permissive voice</gloss> |
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| 5. | A* 2025-12-14 12:11:12 Non | |
| Comments: | A third sense containing the misuse as an [aux] is probably fine, though I would add a note clarifying that it is a misuse. However, I do not think it necessary to add a note to [1] and/or [2] telling the two せしめるs apart - they have completely different meanings, unlike the させるs that are pretty much identical. That said, nothing happened on the non-auxiliary させる entry; I have no idea what you are talking about. |
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| 4. | A* 2025-12-13 11:12:17 Sombrero1 | |
| Refs: | Sankoku, like daijirin, calls it 連語:
①〔サ変動詞の未然形+助動詞「しめる」〕…させる。
「他人をして〔=他人に〕使用━」
②助動詞「しめる」の誤った言い方。
「耳をかたむけ━」
Daijirin:
主として漢語サ変複合動詞語尾の未然形に「しめる」がついた形で用いられる。…させる。
Interestingly KOD追加語彙 has it as an [aux-v] entry (although I'm not sure I would take their example as a usage of a 助動詞 せしめる):
-せしめる 外字(-seshimeru)
⇒-しめる.
●その方策は彼を窮地から脱せしめた.
These measures got him out of the difficulty. | This course of action enabled him to escape (from) the predicament.
Daijirin's explanation seems pretty accurate for the most part.
The majority of examples for this せしめる in BCCWJ and massif were 漢語サ変 constructions:
「 [...] 被災現地の方々の復旧の意欲を高揚せしめるよう特段の御努力をお願いしておきたいと存じます。」
Though I also spotted this one in BCCWJ:
「しかし、そのあまりに優美な形から中国色よりも日本の造形美を感じせしめるものでもある」
And these two in massif:
「被害が広がりゆく前に変化を生じせしめなければならない。」
「突貫力に優れ、その先端は敵を貫きせしめるためのものだ。」
Which would align with Sankoku's second sense.
. |
|
| Comments: | You are correct. I'm unsure as to why I made this a pure [aux-v] entry. And on top of that I even forgot the attachment note. I've cut it back to an [exp] entry for now, but maybe there should be some additional information on sense one and two to avoid confusion with the other せしめる? I'd also point out that it may be worthwhile to have extra senses for the seemingly present [aux-v] usage. This reminds me of the させる entries. What do you think? |
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| Diff: | @@ -8 +8 @@ -<pos>&aux-v;</pos> +<pos>&exp;</pos> @@ -11 +11 @@ -<gloss>auxiliary verb indicating the causative voice</gloss> +<gloss>to make (someone) do</gloss> @@ -14 +14 @@ -<pos>&aux-v;</pos> +<pos>&exp;</pos> @@ -17 +17 @@ -<gloss>auxiliary verb indicating the permissive voice</gloss> +<gloss>to let (someone) do</gloss> |
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| 3. | A* 2025-12-13 02:46:50 Non | |
| Refs: | On the surface this should be せ~しめる (せ being a stem of する), and if so this is not an auxiliary but rather a compound. Browsing a few dictionaries, the only one I had with an entry for this was Daijirin, which agrees with my initial impression: 『(連語)〔サ変動詞「する」の未然形「せ」に使役の助動詞「しめる」のついたもの〕主として漢語サ変複合動詞語尾の未然形に「しめる」がついた形で用いられる。…させる。「本隊を出発━◦しめる」』 |
|
| Comments: | Probably a compound; will not be conducting any changes myself as I do not have Sankoku and thus cannot judge its reference. If it could be cited, we can then decide which reference is the referenciest. |
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| (show/hide 2 older log entries) | ||
| 1. |
[n]
[abbr,col]
▶ ChatGPT
|
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| 3. | A 2025-12-20 19:03:08 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | Not an official abbreviation. |
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| Diff: | @@ -10,0 +11 @@ +<misc>&col;</misc> |
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| 2. | A 2025-11-28 21:05:37 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Diff: | @@ -8,0 +9,2 @@ +<xref type="see" seq="2859501">ChatGPT</xref> +<misc>&abbr;</misc> |
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| 1. | A* 2025-11-28 05:04:07 | |
| Refs: | https://www.msn.com/ja-jp/news/entertainment/日テレ森圭介アナ-難関資格ダブル合格を報告-チャッピーをフル活用の勉強法も披露/ar-AA1RiPrc?ocid=winp2fptaskbarhover&cvid=0eeb6184a6d14b228cb0d18eb1785cde&ei=6 |
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| 1. |
[n]
[vulg,net-sl]
▶ masturbation addict |
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| 2. | A 2025-12-20 20:57:26 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | From the WWW images, it seems mostly female. |
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| 1. | A* 2025-12-08 20:08:57 | |
| Refs: | https://dic.pixiv.net/a/シコ猿 |
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| 1. |
[exp,v5u]
▶ to have similar tastes (in food) ▶ to have compatible palates |
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| 2. |
[exp,v5u]
▶ to be in sync (of lip movements with spoken or sung vocals) |
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| 3. |
[exp,v5u]
[arch]
▶ to understand each other ▶ to be in agreement |
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| 9. | A 2025-12-24 23:59:52 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
| Diff: | @@ -23,2 +23 @@ -<gloss>to be in sync (to the audio)</gloss> -<gloss>to be in lip-sync</gloss> +<gloss>to be in sync (of lip movements with spoken or sung vocals)</gloss> @@ -30,2 +29,2 @@ -<gloss>to get along (with)</gloss> -<gloss>to talk in harmony</gloss> +<gloss>to understand each other</gloss> +<gloss>to be in agreement</gloss> |
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| 8. | A* 2025-12-20 11:06:00 parfait8 | |
| Refs: | https://x.com/TAKAHIRO_HD883/status/1958522687166583034 https://x.com/RenonLove_Ch/status/1998322823383912515 https://x.com/yuming_0914/status/434285875816460288 https://x.com/creorippa900/status/1967859114664693894 https://cinemore.jp/jp/news-feature/4161/article_p3.html |
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| Diff: | @@ -27 +27,2 @@ -<pos>&n;</pos> +<pos>&exp;</pos> +<pos>&v5u;</pos> @@ -29,2 +30,2 @@ -<gloss>to get along with</gloss> -<gloss>to share opinions</gloss> +<gloss>to get along (with)</gloss> +<gloss>to talk in harmony</gloss> |
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| 7. | A* 2025-12-20 10:44:06 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | They seem quite plausibile, BUT we really need some examples from the tweets and web pages that lead you to those meaings. I'll keep this pending until we have that information. Assuming the entry proceeds, we may as well include the old meaning as well. |
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| Diff: | @@ -24,0 +25,6 @@ +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&n;</pos> +<misc>&arch;</misc> +<gloss>to get along with</gloss> +<gloss>to share opinions</gloss> |
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| 6. | A* 2025-12-19 02:11:38 parfait8 | |
| Comments: | found several tweets/web results using these two meanings |
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| Diff: | @@ -6,0 +7,4 @@ +<k_ele> +<keb>口があう</keb> +<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf> +</k_ele> @@ -11,4 +15,10 @@ -<pos>&n;</pos> -<misc>&arch;</misc> -<gloss>to get along with</gloss> -<gloss>to share opinions</gloss> +<pos>&exp;</pos> +<pos>&v5u;</pos> +<gloss>to have similar tastes (in food)</gloss> +<gloss>to have compatible palates</gloss> +</sense> +<sense> +<pos>&exp;</pos> +<pos>&v5u;</pos> +<gloss>to be in sync (to the audio)</gloss> +<gloss>to be in lip-sync</gloss> |
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| 5. | A* 2025-12-19 01:15:03 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | Given that it's more likely to mean something else in modern Japanese, I think this entry does more harm than good. We usually reject archaic expressions. |
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| (show/hide 4 older log entries) | ||
| 1. |
[n]
▶ manosphere (online communities concerned with men's issues, masculinity and opposition to feminism) |
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| 4. | A 2025-12-20 23:27:37 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | OK |
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| 3. | A* 2025-12-20 22:01:27 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | It's a neologism but I don't think it's [col]. |
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| Diff: | @@ -9,2 +9 @@ -<misc>&col;</misc> -<gloss>manosphere</gloss> +<gloss>manosphere (online communities concerned with men's issues, masculinity and opposition to feminism)</gloss> |
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| 2. | A 2025-12-15 11:24:29 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | KOD |
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| Comments: | It's wider than that. |
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| Diff: | @@ -9 +9 @@ -<misc>&net-sl;</misc> +<misc>&col;</misc> |
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| 1. | A* 2025-12-15 10:33:14 | |
| Refs: | https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/マノスフィア https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manosphere |
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| 1. |
[n]
{computing}
▶ organic electroluminescent display ▶ OLED display |
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| 4. | A 2025-12-20 09:52:28 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | Thought I'd checked that. |
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| 3. | A* 2025-12-20 07:04:43 | |
| Diff: | @@ -5 +5 @@ -<keb>有機ELディスプレイ</keb> +<keb>有機ELディスプレイ</keb> |
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| 2. | A 2025-12-20 01:34:10 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | https://evort.jp/article/oled https://time-space.kddi.com/ict-keywords/kaisetsu/20160520.html |
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| Comments: | Not that common, but gets some hits. |
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| 1. | A* 2025-12-18 00:37:07 AdyaGD <...address hidden...> | |
| 1. |
[adj-f]
[abbr]
▶ high-tensile (e.g. steel)
|
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| 2. | A 2025-12-20 06:44:20 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 1. | A* 2025-12-19 16:05:53 Brian Krznarich <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | ハイテン材 781 14.5% ハイテン鋼 756 14.0% ハイテンスチール 1174 21.8% ハイテンション材 51 0.9% ハイテンション鋼 2011 37.4% ハイテンションスチール 611 11.3% not adj-na ハイテンな材 0 0.0% ハイテンな鋼 0 0.0% ハイテンなスチール 0 0.0% ハイテンションな材 0 0.0% ハイテンションな鋼 0 0.0% ハイテンションなスチール 0 0.0% not adj-no ハイテンの材 0 0.0% ハイテンの鋼 0 0.0% ハイテンのスチール 0 0.0% ハイテンションの材 0 0.0% ハイテンションの鋼 0 0.0% ハイテンションのスチール 0 0.0% |
|
| Comments: | ngrams notwithstanding, this abbreviated form now seems more common in search results |
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| 1. |
[n]
{Internet}
▶ Super Chat (in YouTube live streams)
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| 3. | A 2025-12-20 19:34:46 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Diff: | @@ -9,0 +10 @@ +<field>&internet;</field> |
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| 2. | A* 2025-12-20 11:28:46 Adrian Grana <...address hidden...> | |
| Diff: | @@ -8,0 +9 @@ +<xref type="see" seq="2868469">スパチャ</xref> |
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| 1. | A* 2025-12-20 11:26:00 Adrian Grana <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/スーパーチャット |
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| Comments: | not as common as the abbreviation |
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| 1. |
[n]
[abbr]
{Internet}
▶ Super Chat (in YouTube live streams)
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| 2. | A 2025-12-20 19:35:09 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Diff: | @@ -9,0 +10 @@ +<field>&internet;</field> |
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| 1. | A* 2025-12-20 11:27:39 Adrian Grana <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/スーパーチャット |
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| 1. |
[n]
[uk]
▶ Parnassia foliosa (species of flowering herb) |
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| 2. | A 2025-12-20 20:31:07 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | GG5 |
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| 1. | A* 2025-12-20 14:19:09 Joe Murray | |
| Refs: | https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/シラヒゲソウ https://kotobank.jp/word/白髭草-535581#w-535581 daijs, wiki シラヒゲソウ 1093 90.9% 白髭草 110 9.1% |
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| 1. |
[n]
[uk]
▶ Salvia glabrescens (species of sage) |
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| 2. | A 2025-12-20 20:31:49 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | GG5 |
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| 1. | A* 2025-12-20 14:27:19 Joe Murray | |
| Refs: | アキギリ 1375 77.8% 秋桐 393 22.2% https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/アキギリ https://kotobank.jp/word/秋桐-423028#w-423028 daijs, wiki |
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| 1. |
[n]
▶ griffon ▶ gryphon
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| 2. | A 2025-12-20 19:29:42 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | https://ja.wiktionary.org/wiki/鷲獅子 |
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| 1. | A* 2025-12-20 18:46:38 GM <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | 鷲獅子 236 https://dic.pixiv.net/a/鷲獅子 https://cgworld.jp/regular/201902-villard-08.html グリフォンは鷲の上半身と翼、ライオンの下半身をもつ伝説上の生物で、日本語では「鷲獅子(じゅじし)」と呼ばれることもあります。 |
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| 1. |
[given]
▶ Shunma |
|
| 2. | A 2025-12-20 20:32:12 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 1. | A* 2025-12-20 17:07:04 parfait8 | |
| Refs: | https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/勝俣瞬馬 |
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| 1. |
[surname]
▶ Tsuchiya |
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| 2. | A 2025-12-20 19:23:24 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 1. | A* 2025-12-20 19:10:02 Robin Scott <...address hidden...> | |
| Refs: | https://myoji-yurai.net/searchResult.htm?myojiKanji=圡屋 https://myoji.jitenon.jp/content/圡屋 |
|
| Comments: | Came across it in a news article. |
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