14. |
A 2023-11-07 11:03:47 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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OK, I switched the readings in 3 other 発疹 entries. |
13. |
A* 2023-11-03 23:38:33 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
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I think this is similar to the 30分 as -じゅっぷん vs -じっぷん situation on entry 2859157 in which -じゅっぷん is the commonly used version. And たぐい as 類い vs 類 in entry 1596870.
はっしん might be more common in 50 years if the Ministry of Education is successful in steering the language that way, but it seems safe to stick with ほっしん for now. |
12. |
A* 2023-10-22 01:27:48 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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11. |
A 2023-10-22 01:27:33 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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High time we resolved this one. I'll move ほっしん to the front, approve and reopen.
If this is agreed, we should do all the 発疹 entries. |
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Diff: |
@@ -12 +12 @@
-<reb>とっぱつせいはっしん</reb>
+<reb>とっぱつせいほっしん</reb>
@@ -15 +15 @@
-<reb>とっぱつせいほっしん</reb>
+<reb>とっぱつせいはっしん</reb> |
10. |
A* 2023-10-08 16:48:41 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
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To clarify, I meant people on twitter are complaining about NHK anchors pronouncing it as "はっしん"
Lots of anger and confusion |
(show/hide 9 older log entries)
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9. |
A* 2023-10-08 16:27:54 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
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* NHK
NHK's 2016 accent dictionary has "はっしん" and lists "ほっしん" as "許容"
* Twitter
If you search twitter for '"発疹" "ほっしん"' you can find a lot of people complaining about NHK anchors pronouncing it this way.
This tweet says はっしん is the correct 伝統的 reading.
https://twitter.com/a_w_329/status/1617709866260508672
* Youglish
https://youglish.com/pronounce/発疹/japanese?
Youglish returns 25 videos for "発疹". About 5 of the videos are actually for 発信 mistakenly interpreted as 発疹 by the speech-to-text subtitle programs. Some of the other videos are private (unviewable) or duplicates (same channel & speaker).
I looked through them all and only found one legitimate "はっしん":
https://youtu.be/uGk3SJAf7Ck?si=iP1nTKFL0c0j73NO&t=287
ここの植物は触れるだけで、ひどい痒みや発疹、目まいに襲われる可能性があります
By my count there were nine unique and legitimate "ほっしん" usages, including from a Tokyo MX news broadcast, doctors, scripted cartoons, and people discussing cosmetics. |
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The impression I'm getting is that "ほっしん" is the widely used and understood form regardless of age or location, and that "はっしん" is being pushed by a minority because it was the historically correct form. |
8. |
A* 2023-10-08 13:13:23 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Of the refs I can check while travelling all the JEs either prefer or only have はっしん, and the kokugos are the same apart from Daijisen. I'd keep the current order. |
7. |
A* 2023-10-08 09:32:52 Marcus Richert
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https://www.yomitv.jp/fQ131
20年ぐらい前、「発疹」の読み方について『新明解国語辞典・第5版』で調べた際、「ホッシン」は「『ハッシン』の老人語」と出ていて、普段「ホッシン」と言っていた当時30代の私は、「『老人語』とはなんじゃ!」と思い、それ以来「ホッシン」と『老人語』には気にかけていました。
その後、2004年11月に『新明解国語辞典・第6版』が出た際に、すぐに「発疹」の読み方をチェックしてみたら、
「ホッシン」=「ハッシンの古風な表現」と「老人語」が「古風な表現」に変わっていました。現在の「第7版」も同じ表現です。
ところが、ここ数年、若いアナウンサーやデスクが、「ホッシン」と読んでいるのです。神戸の女子短大の学生に聞いてみても、皆「ホッシン」と読みました。本当に「ホッシン」は、「古風な表現」なのでしょうか?もしかしたら最近は「ハッシン」から「ホッシン」へ回帰しているのではないかという疑念を持ちました。
...
また、関西テレビの委員からは、
「入社時、当時のアナウンス部長に『ハッシンと読むんだ!』と言われた。しかし先日、アナウンス部の若手3人に聞いたところ、全員『ホッシン』と答えた。」
という声もありました。
テレビ朝日の委員からも、
「20~40代後半のアナウンサーに聞いたところ、全員『ホッシン』と答えた。 |
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Comments: |
My wife told me she's nver heard anybody preonounce it はっしん. this is osaka .not sure if a tokyoite might feel differently, but based on this I feel inclined to move ほっしん to the front in all 発疹 entries. |
6. |
A 2023-10-08 00:16:42 Marcus Richert <...address hidden...>
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https://www.mag2.com/p/news/218975/2
つまり、今まではNHKとしては「ハッシン」が正しいとしてきたが、「ホッシン」も認める、ということのようです。
...
基本的には「ホッシン」は医療の世界での読み方のようです。
daijs prefers ほっしん in it's 2 発疹 entries too. (the encyclopedias on kotobank do it the opposite way around) |
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Hard to tell which sbould come first. I've heard two different doctors and one pharmacist all pronounce it ほっしん. My wife pronounces it like that too. Based on my experience, I think following daijs and putting ほっしん first makes sense, (considering we tend to be descriptive rather than prescriptive) butyou could argue eitherwya of course. |
5. |
A 2023-10-07 22:36:40 Robin Scott <...address hidden...>
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wiki |
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Diff: |
@@ -22,0 +23 @@
+<gloss>sixth disease</gloss> |
4. |
A 2023-10-07 21:45:22 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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I remember that. |
3. |
A* 2023-10-07 18:04:25 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
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smk says ほっしん is 古風.
Kokugos also prefer はっしん in entries like 発疹チフス for example |
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Diff: |
@@ -12 +12 @@
-<reb>とっぱつせいほっしん</reb>
+<reb>とっぱつせいはっしん</reb>
@@ -15 +15 @@
-<reb>とっぱつせいはっしん</reb>
+<reb>とっぱつせいほっしん</reb> |
2. |
A* 2023-10-07 12:49:09 Marcus Richert
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Refs: |
wiki, webmd
koj has はっしん
but ほっしん in daij, shinjirin |
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Diff: |
@@ -8,0 +9 @@
+<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
@@ -9,0 +11,3 @@
+<r_ele>
+<reb>とっぱつせいほっしん</reb>
+</r_ele>
@@ -14,0 +19,2 @@
+<field>&med;</field>
+<gloss>roseola</gloss>
@@ -16 +22,2 @@
-<gloss>Roseola infantum</gloss>
+<gloss>roseola infantum</gloss>
+<gloss>three-day fever</gloss> |
1. |
A 2004-11-17 00:00:00
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Comments: |
Entry created |