<entry id="2309456" stat="A" corpus="jmdict" type="jmdict">
<ent_corp type="jmdict">jmdict</ent_corp>
<ent_seq>2848034</ent_seq>
<k_ele>
<keb>そもそも論</keb>
</k_ele>
<k_ele>
<keb>抑論</keb>
<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf>
</k_ele>
<r_ele>
<reb>そもそもろん</reb>
</r_ele>
<sense>
<pos>&n;</pos>
<xref type="see" seq="1006950">そもそも・1</xref>
<gloss>going back to the beginning (in a discussion, argument, etc.)</gloss>
<gloss>returning to the fundamental points (of the issue at hand)</gloss>
<gloss>discussion of how things began (in the first place)</gloss>
</sense>
<info>
<audit time="2021-01-22 13:57:37" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>solo_han</upd_name>
<upd_detl>物事を原初に立ち返って論じる表現</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>https://www.weblio.jp/content/%E3%81%9D%E3%82%82%E3%81%9D%E3%82%82%E8%AB%96</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2021-01-23 20:33:52" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_refs>ＫＯＤ追加語彙: その問題を深く理解するためにはそもそも論が必要だ. To really understand the issue, we 
have to go back to the beginning.</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -12 +12,2 @@
-&lt;gloss&gt;an expression that discusses things back to the beginning&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="1006950"&gt;抑・そもそも・3&lt;/xref&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;going back to the beginning (discussion, etc.)&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2021-01-24 05:11:11" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_diff>@@ -13 +13 @@
-&lt;gloss&gt;going back to the beginning (discussion, etc.)&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;discussion of how things began (in the first place)&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2021-01-24 20:14:27" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2021-01-24 23:40:48" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I think that gloss was fine. The "going back" aspect is important.
For x-refs, I recommend always typing the form of the word you want ([see=そもそも] rather than [see=1006950]) so that obscure kanji isn't carried over.
I think the そもそも in this expression comes from the adverbial usage (see the jitsuyo definition).</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>daijs: 物事の始まりや、問題の起きた理由などに立ち戻って論じること。また、そのような論調。
jitsuyo: 物事を原初に立ち返って論じること、さかのぼって必要性や存在意義などを問うこと、などを意味する表現。「どのようにするか」を議論しているときに「そもそも、どうしてそれが必要か」という問いを蒸し返すようなあり方。</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -12 +12,3 @@
-&lt;xref type="see" seq="1006950"&gt;抑・そもそも・3&lt;/xref&gt;
+&lt;xref type="see" seq="1006950"&gt;そもそも・1&lt;/xref&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;going back to the beginning (in a discussion, argument, etc.)&lt;/gloss&gt;
+&lt;gloss&gt;returning to the fundamental points (of the issue at hand)&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2021-01-26 07:20:49" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2024-08-22 04:08:54" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_refs>そもそも論	14604	100.0%
抑論	0	0.0%
daijs</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -5,0 +6,4 @@
+&lt;/k_ele&gt;
+&lt;k_ele&gt;
+&lt;keb&gt;抑論&lt;/keb&gt;
+&lt;ke_inf&gt;&amp;rK;&lt;/ke_inf&gt;</upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2024-08-22 09:19:56" stat="A">
<upd_uid>razasyedh</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Syed Raza</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_refs>meikyo</upd_refs>
</audit>
</info>
</entry>