jmdict 1324880 Active (id#2279062)
弱肉強食 [news2,nf42]
じゃくにくきょうしょく [news2,nf42]
  1. [n] [yoji]
    • the law of the jungle
    • the strong prey on the weak
    • the weak become the victim of the strong
History:
    • A 2023-10-02 22:29:07 Jim Breen (id#2279062)
    • Comments
      I think Stephen has stated it succinctly. That literal gloss really adds nothing.
    • Diff
      @@ -20 +19,0 @@
      -<gloss g_type="lit">the weak are meat the strong do eat</gloss>
    • A* 2023-10-02 15:56:09 Stephen Kraus (id#2279005)
    • Comments
      I think [lit] glosses probably only make sense when they're substantially different from the others. I.e. when an idiomatic expression means something completely different on its face from its idiomatic meaning, and when such a difference requires some supplemental explanation for the reader.
      
      For example, 山が見える could definitely be used both figuratively or literally, so having a [lit] gloss makes a lot of sense.
      
      For a lot of these [yoji] entries, the [lit] glosses don't add much and often sound a bit awkward.
    • A* 2023-10-02 12:10:38 (id#2278982)
    • Comments
      As the arguments against its inclusion have remained undisputed, for two weeks...
    • Diff
      @@ -19,0 +20 @@
      +<gloss g_type="lit">the weak are meat the strong do eat</gloss>
    • A 2023-10-01 22:27:52 Jim Breen (id#2278854)
    • Comments
      Closing.
    • A* 2023-09-18 08:42:17 (id#2277337)
    • Comments
      >> That's precisely my point. lit glosses are supposed to be literal translations *of the Japanese*
      
      No.
      "lit gloss"es are supposed to be literal translations.
      There is no good reason to insist, that it must specifically be from Japanese. I do not, for the life of me, understand why you insist that it must be.
      
      >> "the weak are meat the strong do eat" doesn’t even agree with 弱肉強食's part of speech.
      
      Not entirely, no, but it's about as close as you can get, to a literal translation. (there is, pretty much, no such thing as a perfect translation. Regardless of translation type)
      
      What you're defining as "literal translation", is not really literal translation.
      It is...
      I'd like to say glosses, but given how that word is used here...
      I tried looking up a more specific term for it, and found this:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlinear_gloss
      ("interlinear" would seems to make it needlessly narrow, but what is described in the article perfectly reflects what I'm referring to)
      ...which is very different, to the concept of literal translation.
      
      Essentially, what you are talking about, are glosses, in the proper sense of the word.
      The use of "gloss", in JMDict, is not, I'd argue, strictly accurate, though I suppose it could be argued to be a wider sense of the word.
      Glosses (in the narrower sense) are not translations nor definitions.
      Those three are very different, though clearly related (when describing things, between languages), concepts.
      
      >> It's not consistent with how we use lit glosses on all non-yoji entries.
      
      Yes it is.
      Just _claiming_ that they are not consistent, not/less useful, or in any other way worse, isn't evidence that they are.
      You need to present some argument/evidence.
      
      >> The same goes for translations of the component characters.
      
      It is completely unclear, what that is supposed to mean.
      
      >> I don't think a gloss like "one time, one meeting" is useful.
      
      I absolutely think it is, and think that it is as useful, as any other literal translation, in JMDict.
      How/why do you think that it isn't?
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