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| 1. |
[prt,conj]
▶ if ... then ▶ when |
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| 2. |
[prt,conj]
《often ...も...ば...も...》 ▶ and |
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| 3. |
[prt]
《sentence final》 ▶ why don't you ...? |
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| 4. |
[prt,conj]
《often ...ば...ほど》 ▶ the more (one does something) |
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| 5. |
[prt,conj]
[arch]
▶ because ▶ since |
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| 15. | A 2025-07-11 01:33:29 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Comments: | I yield. |
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| 14. | A* 2025-07-10 16:18:58 Sombrero1 | |
| Refs: | Every kokugo: 〔接続助詞〕 DOJG: "A conjunction which indicates that the preceding clause expresses a conditional" JMdict's own entry for 接続助詞: "conjunction particle (e.g. "ba", "kara", "keredo", "nagara")" . |
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| Comments: | I very much agree with what non has said previously, ば is both a particle and a conjunction. It would be inconsistent both with other entries like けど, けれど and with every major reference, to dismiss this. I think non has sufficiently explained why this should have [conj] tag (apart from sense three) |
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| Diff: | @@ -9,0 +10 @@ +<pos>&conj;</pos> @@ -14,0 +16 @@ +<pos>&conj;</pos> @@ -24,0 +27 @@ +<pos>&conj;</pos> @@ -29,0 +33 @@ +<pos>&conj;</pos> |
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| 13. | A 2025-07-10 06:46:44 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| Diff: | @@ -21 +21 @@ -<gloss>why don't you...?</gloss> +<gloss>why don't you ...?</gloss> |
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| 12. | A 2024-07-07 07:55:14 Jim Breen <...address hidden...> | |
| 11. | A* 2024-05-03 07:33:46 Non | |
| Refs: | I did not think any references would be needed, It is formally classified as a 接続助詞 just about everywhere: daijs, daijr, smk, meikyo, koj... |
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| Comments: | ば's primordial function is to connect two clauses, clause A to clause B, where A is in some manner precedent to B, this should be in line with the citation you have just provided of a conjunction. Additionally, I do not see how these definitions would - or even could - be mutually exclusive: every single conjunction has a grammatical aspect to it, it must always form a syntactically subordinating or coordinating relation in between the two linked items; dismissing [3] as an omission of clause B, and with the potential exclusion of [2], ば falls into the former type. I must also bring to attention that the definition of a conjunction provided is vague and potentially problematic, for example: how does it deal with a coordinating conjunction between two nouns? ”僕と君と...”or anything following the same structure will be constituted of two words that are not particularly large units of meaning, certainly not clauses, and I do not think most would consider each a phrase. Would と cease to be a conjunction? would also または or および? This is not limited to Japanese either, you can just as easily take "Me and you..." and the same problem arises. Lastly, not classifying ば as a conjunction makes the corpus inconsistent: other terms formally classified as 接続助詞 such as と, けれども and its variants have both [conj] and [prt] on their entries; notably, なら and たら both directly derive from ば and are classed as [conj] (though the former's entry is itself a tad inconsistent). Now, as the meaning does not change even in their original forms of ならば and たらば, if ば is not a conjunction, what is it? or rather, if it is not, how are they? |
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