| 10. |
A 2024-10-28 03:52:14 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
OK. Maybe not first gloss. |
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Diff: |
@@ -15,0 +16 @@
+<gloss>broad-bladed kitchen knife (for dressing fish)</gloss>
@@ -17 +17,0 @@
-<gloss>broad-bladed kitchen knife (for dressing fish)</gloss> |
| 9. |
A* 2024-10-19 14:49:42 parfait8
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Refs: |
Google N-gram Corpus Counts
╭─ーーーー─┬────────┬───────╮
│ 出刃包丁 │ 30,264 │ 97.2% │
│ 出刃庖丁 │ 866 │ 2.8% │ add rK
╰─ーーーー─┴────────┴───────╯ |
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Comments: |
i see a lot of mentions of "deba knife" on google (enwiki has it as deba bocho) |
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Diff: |
@@ -8,0 +9 @@
+<ke_inf>&rK;</ke_inf>
@@ -14,0 +16 @@
+<gloss>deba knife</gloss> |
| 8. |
A 2024-08-10 13:18:35 Stephen Kraus <...address hidden...>
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| 7. |
A* 2024-08-10 12:03:47
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Comments: |
When it comes to handling animals, for eating, dressing and butchering, essentially mean the same thing
...but yeah, I haven't heard many mentions of "butchering" a fish. (and only a little child, would suspect that dressing a fish, is about putting clothes, or a dressing, on it. A child, and/or someone intentionally misinterpreting it, for the sake of punning)
The important point, is that it's absolutely not a carving knife, by any stretch of the imagination. It's made for butchering/dressing fish.
The current gloss is perfectly fine, and accurate. 👍
Why you insist on going by J-E dictionaries, and ignoring the far more reliable J-J dictionaries, Wikipedia (one absolutely should be skeptical of Wikipedia, but that's far more true of Japanese J-E dictionaries, so...), and the general obvious meanings of butchering/dressing vs carving (which one shouldn't need to look up), or look at specific culinary or kitchen knife sources... |
| 6. |
A 2024-08-10 01:57:19 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
GG5: a broad-bladed carving knife 《for dressing fish》.
中辞典: a broad-bladed kitchen knife (for dressing fish).
ルミナス: kitchen knife - 包丁の種類が日本と英米では異なっているので, ぴったりの訳語はない. 例えば a Japanese kitchen knife with a strong, sharp 「edge [blade] for chopping fish のような説明によるほかない.
Grand Concise: a kitchen knife (with a thick blade used for cutting fish and meat) |
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Comments: |
I'll go with the JE consensus. "Dressing" is the more usual term for cutting up fish. |
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Diff: |
@@ -15 +15 @@
-<gloss>traditional Japanese fish butchering knife</gloss>
+<gloss>broad-bladed kitchen knife (for dressing fish)</gloss> |
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(show/hide 5 older log entries)
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| 5. |
A* 2024-08-03 10:53:39
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Comments: |
No it doesn't.
Just as how the en-jp equivalent of GG, claims that hip=尻, GG is just plain wrong, here.
This is especially clear, as it contradicts itself, by saying that it's a carving knife, meant for dressing. Carving and dressing/butchering, are two very different things, and knives meant for butchering/dressing and ones meant for carving, are extremely different!
Butchering/dressing involves cutting through bones and such tasks, hence why the deba (and any other butchering/dressing knife) has a very thick and chunky blade, so that it can survive things like chopping off the head of a fish. It's also wide and relatively short, which other butchering/dressing knives also tend to be.
Carving involves slicing thin cuts of meat, without encountering any bones or anything like that. Hence, carving knives (be they Western or Japanese, or anything else), are thin, long, and narrow. (the _very opposite_ features, to butchering/dressing knives)
A deba is meant for butchering/dressing. Not for carving. It _can_ carve, sure. If you don't have a carver, you can use it for the whole process, but it's far from ideal at the task, and is by no means meant for it.
A yanagiba, on the other hand, is a fish carving knife.
They look nothing alike. (especially if you also look at the thickness, and not just the profile)
I suggest you take a look at some deba and yanagiba (maybe a quick internet, image, and/or Youtube search), to see what I mean.
There is also the somewhat related knife type, that is a boning knife.
These are knives meant to separate the meat from the bone, cutting _around_ the bones (but notably not meant to actually cut bones!), which this isn't. As far as I can understand, this isn't a relevant task for fish, as fish have much smaller bones, making such a task impossible to perform, with a knife. |
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Diff: |
@@ -15 +15 @@
-<gloss>broad-bladed carving knife (for dressing fish)</gloss>
+<gloss>traditional Japanese fish butchering knife</gloss> |
| 4. |
A 2024-08-03 05:36:45 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
GG5 (their gloss seems to work well) |
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Diff: |
@@ -15 +15 @@
-<gloss>traditional Japanese fish butchering knife</gloss>
+<gloss>broad-bladed carving knife (for dressing fish)</gloss> |
| 3. |
A* 2024-08-02 15:04:15
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Refs: |
Kōjien
Daijirin
Daijisen
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deba_bōchō
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/出刃包丁 |
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Comments: |
A deba is a very specific knife. Not a general term for knife. Nor is it a pointed carver. It doesn't not have the purpose of a carving knife, nor does it look like one. (either Western or Japanese) It is meant/used for butchering fish. (can also work for chicken, though using a honesuki is preferable, as those are designed for deboning [but not cutting through the bones of!] chicken) |
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Diff: |
@@ -15,2 +15 @@
-<gloss>knife</gloss>
-<gloss>pointed carver</gloss>
+<gloss>traditional Japanese fish butchering knife</gloss> |
| 2. |
A 2010-09-25 04:04:56 Rene Malenfant <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
not oK (e.g., offered by my IME, gets lots of modern hits) |
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Diff: |
@@ -9,1 +9,0 @@
-<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf> |
| 1. |
A* 2010-09-24 15:19:53 Scott
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Diff: |
@@ -6,0 +6,4 @@
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
+<keb>出刃庖丁</keb>
+<ke_inf>&oK;</ke_inf> |