| 9. |
A 2024-05-15 23:33:25 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Diff: |
@@ -12,2 +12,2 @@
-<xref type="see" seq="1226500">詰め・つめ・3</xref>
-<xref type="see" seq="1226500">詰め・つめ・3</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="1226500">詰め・つめ・6</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="1226500">詰め・つめ・6</xref> |
| 8. |
A 2015-03-15 06:50:49 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
I think that's pretty good. |
| 7. |
A* 2015-03-15 00:54:07 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
How's this?
I guess the glosses on お詰め/詰め need changing too. |
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Diff: |
@@ -12,3 +12,6 @@
-<xref type="see" seq="2164990">お詰め・おつめ・1</xref>
-<gloss>lowest-ranking guest at tea ceremony (usu. assists the host)</gloss>
-<gloss>last guest</gloss>
+<xref type="see" seq="1226500">詰め・つめ・3</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="2713700">次客・じきゃく</xref>
+<xref type="see" seq="1580860">正客・しょうきゃく</xref>
+<gloss>last guest (tea ceremony)</gloss>
+<gloss>third guest of honour (honor)</gloss>
+<gloss g_type="expl">guest who sits in the seat furthest from the host and assists in various ways</gloss> |
| 6. |
A* 2015-03-14 22:53:32 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
Googling tea ceremony sites, I can find no other (brief) English term than "last guest":
- 末客, makkyaku, last guest ...
- As makkyaku (last guest), I had to bring the mizuyamimai
- In Midorikai, each student will be teishu (host), hanto (host’s assistant), shokyaku (first guest), and otsume or makkyaku (last guest) for a chaji before they go home.
- Otsume One who is designated as the “last” guest in a Japanese tea ceremony.
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The definition "lowest-ranking guest at tea ceremony" is out there on the Web, but it's clearly wrong, since complete beginners are warned not to sit in the makkyaku's seat.
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"Tsume. The guest who takes the end seat in the tea-room. O-tsume is the polite form of the word. His rank is not high, but the function is just as important as that of shokyaku. He is expected to assist the host in many ways, and only an experienced person can fill this office successfully."
http://terebess.hu/english/fukukita.html
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I suppose you could say "guest who sits in the seat furthest from the host and assists the host in various ways". But there doesn't seem to be any one- or two-word term for this person in English, other than "last guest". |
| 5. |
A* 2015-03-14 22:30:29 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
"the last guest has a special name which is Tsume."
http://japanese-tea-ceremony.net/guests.html
Tsume ( 詰め ) (last guest)
http://japanese-tea-ceremony.net/ceremony_process.html#tsume
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Maybe "lowest-ranking guest at tea ceremony (usu. assists the host); last guest" could be changed to "one of three guests of honor who assist the host; last guest" and link to the entries for 正客 and 次客.
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"last" here refers to "last to enter the room" and "seating in the last position (furthest from the host)", not "ranked last". |
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(show/hide 4 older log entries)
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| 4. |
A* 2015-03-14 22:09:16 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
Here is a diagram
http://j-tradition.com/tea/img/tea-b3.jpg
It's from
http://j-tradition.com/tea/style/attend.html
That page says that a first-time participant must be careful not sit in the position of the first guest of honor, the second guest of honor, or the "last guest of honor", because these three people have special roles in the tea ceremony, assisting the host with seeing that everything runs smoothly. |
| 3. |
A* 2015-03-14 02:13:42 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
Not much time at the moment, but this is *not* the lowest ranked guest at tea ceremony. There is the guest of honor, the second guest of honor, and then the "last guest". All other guests would be "ranked lower" than these three. I'll look into it a bit more later. |
| 2. |
A* 2015-03-14 01:32:53 Jim Breen <...address hidden...>
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Comments: |
How's this? "Last guest" has a 直訳 feel to me. |
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Diff: |
@@ -12 +12,3 @@
-<gloss>last guest (assistant to the host in tea ceremony)</gloss>
+<xref type="see" seq="2164990">お詰め・おつめ・1</xref>
+<gloss>lowest-ranking guest at tea ceremony (usu. assists the host)</gloss>
+<gloss>last guest</gloss> |
| 1. |
A* 2015-03-14 00:39:37 Richard Warmington <...address hidden...>
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Refs: |
"When the makkyaku (last guest) has entered the tea room he closes the door, making a
slight noise. This tells the host that everyone has entered the tea room."
http://www.omotesenke.jp/english/list5/list5-3/list5-3-3/
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スーパー大辞林 3.0
まっ きゃく ［0］ 【末客】
茶席で、末席に座る客。亭主の手助けをするなど、茶会の円滑な進行役を兼ねる。古くは正客（しようきやく）の従者や茶頭
（さどう）役が受け持った。詰（つめ）。お詰。おまつ。
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茶道では、座る席によって役割が決まっています。このとき、座るのを避けるべき席が3つあります。それは、最も上位の席に
座る人を示す「正客（しょうきゃく）」、その次に座る「次客（じきゃく）」、そして末端の席にあたる「末客（まっきゃく）」
です。 |