Entries

<entry eid="2303342" stat="A" corpus="jmdict" type="jmdict"> <ent_corp type="jmdict">jmdict</ent_corp> <ent_seq>1001420</ent_seq> <r_ele> <reb>おなら</reb> <re_pri>ichi1</re_pri> </r_ele> <r_ele> <reb>オナラ</reb> </r_ele> <sense> <pos>&n;</pos> <gloss>wind</gloss> <gloss>gas</gloss> <gloss>fart</gloss> </sense> <history> <audit time="2012-04-28 16:34:47" stat="A" unap="true"> <upd_name>Marcus</upd_name> <upd_refs>daijr list these separately and does not indicate that 屁 can be read as おなら. daijr only lists "something worthless" as a sense for へ. I suggest these are split</upd_refs> <upd_diff>@@ -23,0 +23,5 @@ +&lt;sense&gt; +&lt;stagr&gt;へ&lt;/stagr&gt; +&lt;pos&gt;&amp;n;&lt;/pos&gt; +&lt;gloss&gt;something worthless&lt;/gloss&gt; +&lt;/sense&gt;</upd_diff> </audit> <audit time="2012-04-30 06:58:33" stat="A"> <upd_uid>rene</upd_uid> <upd_name>Rene Malenfant</upd_name> <upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email> <upd_refs>koj: お‐なら【屁】 （「鳴らす」より）屁[へ]。</upd_refs> <upd_diff>@@ -27,0 +27,1 @@ +&lt;gloss&gt;something not worth considering&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff> </audit> <audit time="2012-04-30 07:49:18" stat="A" unap="true"> <upd_name>Marcus</upd_name> <upd_detl>If おなら comes from お鳴らし, isn't that one more argument for splitting?</upd_detl> <upd_refs>jawiki also only lists へ as a reading of 屁 http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B1%81 difference in nuance too, 屁 is more vulgar (though maybe not necessarily [vulg]) "「おなら」は「お鳴らし」が略されてできた女房言葉で、「屁」よりも上品（あるい は婉曲）な言い方であるとされている。" (wiki) "「屁」なんて言うと下品に下品がおんぶして、いても立ってもいられなかったはずだ" http://gakuen.gifu- net.ed.jp/~cont1/tyu_kokugo/tyukokugo/column/column_11/onara .html</upd_refs> </audit> <audit time="2012-04-30 07:59:13" stat="A"> <upd_uid>rene</upd_uid> <upd_name>Rene Malenfant</upd_name> <upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email> <upd_detl>no. why would we split if they have the same headword and meaning? etymology doesn't play into it</upd_detl> </audit> <audit time="2012-04-30 09:22:08" stat="A" unap="true"> <upd_name>Marcus</upd_name> <upd_detl>OK, point taken on etymology, but I still think they should be split. Although 屁 can be read as "onara" according to one or two dictionaries, it isn't, really, ever read as おな ら over へ. They are two different words, one more vulgar than the other (へ could perhaps be tagged [col] or [vulgar], おなら probably not), and they only share half of the glosses. Usage is different too: you say へをこく but not really おならをこく. Also おなら is [uk], while へ is't.</upd_detl> </audit> <audit time="2012-05-04 23:22:36" stat="A" unap="true"> <upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid> <upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name> <upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email> <upd_detl>One wit said that lexicographers are divided into "splitters and clumpers". I'm fairly much in the clumper camp, which is probably why JMdict is the way it is. That said, I agree that へ/おなら is a real borderline case, and is a shining example of the messiness of Japanese orthography. If there was a clean usage split between へ and おなら, e.g. one was always polite/clinical and the other was always col/vulg, I'd put them in different senses with comments to indicate usage, but it seems both are used in both applications. On balance I think they should stay in the one entry.</upd_detl> </audit> <audit time="2012-05-05 03:45:35" stat="A"> <upd_uid>rene</upd_uid> <upd_name>Rene Malenfant</upd_name> <upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email> </audit> <audit time="2022-09-22 17:57:27" stat="A" unap="true"> <upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid> <upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name> <upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email> <upd_detl>This should be two entries. It doesn't make sense to tag this as "uk" when へ is almost always written with kanji. Also, with the exception of koj, my refs don't even have kanji for おなら.</upd_detl> </audit> <audit time="2022-09-24 00:42:36" stat="A"> <upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid> <upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name> <upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email> <upd_detl>OK, splitting.</upd_detl> <upd_refs>おなら 277203 オナラ 127902</upd_refs> <upd_diff>@@ -13 +13,2 @@ -&lt;reb&gt;へ&lt;/reb&gt; +&lt;reb&gt;オナラ&lt;/reb&gt; +&lt;re_nokanji/&gt; @@ -18 +18,0 @@ -&lt;s_inf&gt;usually 屁 is へ, and おなら is in kana&lt;/s_inf&gt; @@ -22,6 +21,0 @@ -&lt;/sense&gt; -&lt;sense&gt; -&lt;stagr&gt;へ&lt;/stagr&gt; -&lt;pos&gt;&amp;n;&lt;/pos&gt; -&lt;gloss&gt;something worthless&lt;/gloss&gt; -&lt;gloss&gt;something not worth considering&lt;/gloss&gt;</upd_diff> </audit> <audit time="2022-09-24 14:59:28" stat="A"> <upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid> <upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name> <upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email> <upd_refs>https://furigana.info/w/%E5%B1%81</upd_refs> <upd_diff>@@ -6 +6 @@ -&lt;ke_pri&gt;ichi1&lt;/ke_pri&gt; +&lt;ke_inf&gt;&amp;rK;&lt;/ke_inf&gt;</upd_diff> </audit> <audit time="2024-06-04 07:29:23" stat="A" unap="true"> <upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid> <upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name> <upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email> <upd_detl>おなら is not a recognized 訓読み of 屁, despite it being in Nelson and S&amp;K.</upd_detl> <upd_refs>Koj: (「鳴らす」より)</upd_refs> <upd_diff>@@ -9,0 +10 @@ +&lt;re_inf&gt;&amp;gikun;&lt;/re_inf&gt;</upd_diff> </audit> <audit time="2024-06-04 18:28:08" stat="A" unap="true"> <upd_uid>robin1354</upd_uid> <upd_name>Robin Scott</upd_name> <upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email> <upd_detl>I think we could drop the kanji. Only koj has it.</upd_detl> </audit> <audit time="2024-06-04 21:02:29" stat="A" unap="true"> <upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid> <upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name> <upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email> <upd_detl>Dunno. Certainly uncommon, but I can see a few examples such as おなら恐怖症 being written 屁恐怖症.</upd_detl> </audit> <audit time="2024-06-05 02:57:18" stat="A" unap="true"> <upd_detl>Seems unlikely it'd be read as おなら rather than へ in those cases.</upd_detl> </audit> <audit time="2024-06-05 05:18:28" stat="A"> <upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid> <upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name> <upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email> <upd_detl>OK. Probably not even worth a note about 屁.</upd_detl> <upd_diff>@@ -4,4 +3,0 @@ -&lt;k_ele&gt; -&lt;keb&gt;屁&lt;/keb&gt; -&lt;ke_inf&gt;&amp;rK;&lt;/ke_inf&gt; -&lt;/k_ele&gt; @@ -10 +5,0 @@ -&lt;re_inf&gt;&amp;gikun;&lt;/re_inf&gt; @@ -15 +9,0 @@ -&lt;re_nokanji/&gt; @@ -19 +12,0 @@ -&lt;misc&gt;&amp;uk;&lt;/misc&gt;</upd_diff> </audit> </history> </entry>