jmdict
2845548
Active
(id:
2299846)
<entry id="2299846" stat="A" corpus="jmdict" type="jmdict">
<ent_corp type="jmdict">jmdict</ent_corp>
<ent_seq>2845548</ent_seq>
<k_ele>
<keb>そんな馬鹿な</keb>
</k_ele>
<r_ele>
<reb>そんなばかな</reb>
</r_ele>
<r_ele>
<reb>そんなバカな</reb>
<re_nokanji/>
</r_ele>
<sense>
<pos>&exp;</pos>
<pos>&adj-f;</pos>
<gloss>such a stupid ...</gloss>
<gloss>what a crazy ...</gloss>
</sense>
<sense>
<pos>∫</pos>
<misc>&uk;</misc>
<gloss>no way!</gloss>
<gloss>what nonsense!</gloss>
<gloss>how can that be?</gloss>
</sense>
<info>
<audit time="2020-07-08 03:39:16" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Nicolas Maia</upd_name>
<upd_detl>そんなバカな 78806
そんな馬鹿な 73610
そんなばかな 25035
My すぐに使える日本語会話超ミニフレーズ book is the source of the note.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>https://ejje.weblio.jp/content/%E3%81%9D%E3%82%93%E3%81%AA%E3%81%B0%E3%81%8B%E3%81%AA
https://hinative.com/ja/questions/1298340
https://hinative.com/ja/questions/2774328</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-07-11 07:19:52" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I can see that this is being used as a stand-alone expression as proposed in this entry, but most of the time it is "just" the very compositional そんな + 馬鹿 + な as in "such an idiotic ....". It's in one GG5 example and 14 Tanaka sentences but all but 2 of them are of the style:
どうしてそんな馬鹿な事が言えるんですか。 How can you say such a silly thing?
I've suggested a separate sense, but it conceivably could be combined.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -7,0 +8,3 @@
+<reb>そんなばかな</reb>
+</r_ele>
+<r_ele>
@@ -11,3 +13,0 @@
-<r_ele>
-<reb>そんなばかな</reb>
-</r_ele>
@@ -15,0 +16,6 @@
+<pos>&adj-f;</pos>
+<gloss>such a stupid ...</gloss>
+<gloss>what a crazy ...</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&int;</pos></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-07-22 08:24:07" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Looking at this further, I see that the "such an idiotic ...." usage is usually そんな馬鹿な and the "no way!; what nonsense!" usage is usually そんなバカな. Perhaps the way forward with this is just to have the そんなバカな expression. People can work out そんな馬鹿な(こと) for themselves.
Would that work?</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -22 +22 @@
-<s_inf>abbr. of そんなバカなことがあるはずがない</s_inf>
+<s_inf>usu. そんなバカな, abbr. of 〜ことがあるはずがない</s_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-07-25 07:32:17" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>No-one else is responding on this, so I'm going to let it in as the interjection with the バカ form. I'll reopen it for a while for comments, if any.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -4,6 +3,0 @@
-<k_ele>
-<keb>そんな馬鹿な</keb>
-</k_ele>
-<r_ele>
-<reb>そんなばかな</reb>
-</r_ele>
@@ -12 +5,0 @@
-<re_nokanji/>
@@ -15,6 +7,0 @@
-<pos>&exp;</pos>
-<pos>&adj-f;</pos>
-<gloss>such a stupid ...</gloss>
-<gloss>what a crazy ...</gloss>
-</sense>
-<sense>
@@ -22 +9 @@
-<s_inf>usu. そんなバカな, abbr. of 〜ことがあるはずがない</s_inf>
+<s_inf>abbr. of 〜ことがあるはずがない</s_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-07-25 07:32:36" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Reopen.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-07-25 12:55:03" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I'm happy to keep it, but I don't think it
makes sense to keep the 馬鹿 form out.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -3,0 +4,6 @@
+<k_ele>
+<keb>そんな馬鹿な</keb>
+</k_ele>
+<r_ele>
+<reb>そんなばかな</reb>
+</r_ele>
@@ -5,0 +12 @@
+<re_nokanji/>
@@ -8,0 +16 @@
+<misc>&uk;</misc></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-07-31 12:18:15" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>As I said on 22 July; "Looking at this further, I see that the "such an idiotic ...." usage is usually そんな馬鹿な and the "no way!; what nonsense!" usage is usually そんなバカな. " I think if the 馬鹿 version comes back, we have to put the "such an idiotic ...." type of gloss back in as well or we'll be basically mistranslating the most common usage.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-08-01 02:02:31" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I just don't think that's correct, 馬鹿
and バカ are perfectly interchangeable.
There might be a tendency like you
described but I don't think it makes sense
to exclude either surface form jist based
on that.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>https://mobile.twitter.com/tangentgohan2/s
tatus/1286334634632966144
https://mobile.twitter.com/PaO_game/status
/1288797784515084289
https://mobile.twitter.com/c_ssk/status/12
88842078789615616
https://mobile.twitter.com/AmaCareer/statu
s/1288671177838219264</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-08-01 02:10:06" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Also I think the note is a bit of an
overstatement, it can be an "abbr" of "そ
んな馬鹿な話がない!" etc. If it's really
correct to call it an abbr...</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-08-06 06:15:56" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Well, it can't go in without its usual meaning, otherwise it's quite misleading. I'll put Nicolas' proposed sense in as #2 with a usage note, approve and reopen if we want to discuss it further.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -14,0 +15,6 @@
+<pos>&exp;</pos>
+<pos>&adj-f;</pos>
+<gloss>such a stupid ...</gloss>
+<gloss>what a crazy ...</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
@@ -17 +23 @@
-<s_inf>abbr. of 〜ことがあるはずがない</s_inf>
+<s_inf>usu. そんなバカな</s_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-08-06 06:16:11" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>Reopen.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2020-08-06 06:33:24" stat="A">
<upd_uid>Marcus</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_refs>sense 1 use vs sense 2:
"そんなバカな" 9 vs 3
"そんな馬鹿な" 4 vs 2
I don't think we have coverage to say that sense 2 is more commonly そんなバカな - it is, yes, but then again so is
sense 1.</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -23 +22,0 @@
-<s_inf>usu. そんなバカな</s_inf></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2024-04-27 10:00:31" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_detl>New entry? or sK and sks here?
(only sense 2 I think)</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>そんな馬鹿な 73610 37.7%
そんなばかな 25035 12.8%
そんなバカな 78806 40.3%
んな馬鹿な 4230 2.2%
んなばかな 2251 1.2%
んなバカな 11397 5.8%
https://lineup.toei-anim.co.jp/ja/tv/dragonz/episode/22/
第 22 話 んなバカな！ 土から生まれたサイバイマン - ドラゴンボールZ</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2024-04-27 11:59:49" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>New entry, I think. We have separate entries for そんな and んな.</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2024-05-04 22:00:34" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I've proposed a new entry.</upd_detl>
</audit>
</info>
</entry>