jmdict
1756270
Active
(id:
2297732)
<entry id="2297732" stat="A" corpus="jmdict" type="jmdict">
<ent_corp type="jmdict">jmdict</ent_corp>
<ent_seq>1756270</ent_seq>
<k_ele>
<keb>言い出しっぺ</keb>
<ke_pri>news2</ke_pri>
<ke_pri>nf46</ke_pri>
</k_ele>
<k_ele>
<keb>言いだしっぺ</keb>
</k_ele>
<k_ele>
<keb>言い出しっ屁</keb>
<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
</k_ele>
<k_ele>
<keb>言出しっぺ</keb>
<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
</k_ele>
<k_ele>
<keb>言出しっ屁</keb>
<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
</k_ele>
<r_ele>
<reb>いいだしっぺ</reb>
<re_pri>news2</re_pri>
<re_pri>nf46</re_pri>
</r_ele>
<sense>
<pos>&n;</pos>
<xref type="see" seq="2722080">言い出しべ・いいだしべ</xref>
<gloss>first person to say something</gloss>
<gloss>first person to suggest something</gloss>
<gloss>person who raised a matter</gloss>
</sense>
<info>
<audit time="2012-06-01 05:52:28" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus</upd_name>
<upd_refs>daijs, daijr, 実用日本語表現辞典</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -24,0 +24,1 @@
+<pos>&n;</pos>
@@ -25,3 +26,7 @@
-<gloss>the one who brought it up</gloss>
-<gloss>the one who calls attention to a fart is in fact the farter</gloss>
-<gloss>the one who brings up a subject must be the first to act upon it</gloss>
+<s_inf>from the idea that it is the person who farted who is the first to mention the smell</s_inf>
+<gloss>the first person who claims innocence is guilty</gloss>
+</sense>
+<sense>
+<pos>&n;</pos>
+<gloss>first person to say something</gloss>
+<gloss>first person to suggest something</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-06-09 06:59:45" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>rene</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Rene Malenfant</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_refs>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatulence_humor
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/he_who_smelt_it_dealt_it</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -25,3 +25,2 @@
-<pos>&exp;</pos>
-<s_inf>from the idea that it is the person who farted who is the first to mention the smell</s_inf>
-<gloss>the first person who claims innocence is guilty</gloss>
+<gloss>first person to say something</gloss>
+<gloss>first person to suggest something</gloss>
@@ -31,2 +30,3 @@
-<gloss>first person to say something</gloss>
-<gloss>first person to suggest something</gloss>
+<s_inf>orig. meaning</s_inf>
+<gloss>he who smelt it dealt it</gloss>
+<gloss g_type="expl">the first person who claims innocence is guilty</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2012-06-12 06:10:05" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
</audit>
<audit time="2015-05-24 11:20:07" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Marcus Richert</upd_name>
<upd_detl>discussed this w a native speaker. also
daijs etc. only have the first meaning,
and give the other meaning as its
etymology - not original meaning</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>daijs</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -28,6 +27,0 @@
-<sense>
-<pos>&n;</pos>
-<s_inf>orig. meaning</s_inf>
-<gloss>he who smelt it dealt it</gloss>
-<gloss g_type="expl">the first person who claims innocence is guilty</gloss>
-</sense></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2015-05-25 06:50:56" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>rene</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Rene Malenfant</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>i think that a) the etymology is worth mentioning somewhere, and b) i don't think this is limited to a person as opposed to a figurative use of "the one who smelt it dealt it". that should be a separate sense.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>shinmeikai:
何かをしようと最初に提案した以上、当然自ら率先して行なう責任のある当人の意の俗称。</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2015-06-22 01:50:50" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I've been trying to see a way forward with this. I quite like it as it stands, and it matches the refs pretty well. I'm not at sure the etymology is needed - I think it's clear from the kanji.
Whatever we come up with should be aligned with 2722080.
I suggest leaving it open a few more days, and if no-one comes up with a viable amendment, we'll close it.</upd_detl>
<upd_diff>@@ -24,0 +25 @@
+<xref type="see" seq="2722080">言い出しべ・いいだしべ・1</xref></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2015-07-15 06:03:21" stat="A">
<upd_uid>rene</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Rene Malenfant</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>okay</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2017-03-05 19:52:03" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_name>Timofei Shatrov</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_diff>@@ -7,0 +8,3 @@
+</k_ele>
+<k_ele>
+<keb>言いだしっぺ</keb></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2017-03-05 20:07:48" stat="A">
<upd_uid>johan</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Johan Råde</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_refs>G n-grams:
言い出しっぺ 49346
言いだしっぺ 44096
言い出しっ屁 102
言出しっぺ 70
言出しっ屁 No matches
いいだしっぺ 7727</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -16 +16 @@
-<keb>言出しっ屁</keb>
+<keb>言出しっぺ</keb>
@@ -19 +19 @@
-<keb>言出しっぺ</keb>
+<keb>言出しっ屁</keb></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2024-04-10 13:59:04" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_detl>maybe it's just me but "first person" doesn't sound right, because it inadvertently implies that there were multiple persons who said the same thing.
it's more like "person who actually suggested/proposed it" or "person who started the (current) matter/discussion"
the old gloss "the one who brought it up" was better.
additionally, the old "the one who brings up a subject must be the first to act upon it" matches daijirin's second part which is currently ignored. ("you suggested it, you do it")</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>daijirin: 何かをしようと言い出した人。また、提案した人がまず始めること。</upd_refs>
</audit>
<audit time="2024-04-11 00:46:21" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>I don't have a problem with the "first person". Maybe this helps.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>GG5, etc. examples, Eijiro
言い出しっぺ 49346 48.7%
言いだしっぺ 44096 43.5%
言い出しっ屁 102 0.1%
言出しっぺ 70 0.1%
言出しっ屁 0 0.0%
いいだしっぺ 7727 7.6%</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -13,0 +14 @@
+<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
@@ -16,0 +18 @@
+<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
@@ -19,0 +22 @@
+<ke_inf>&sK;</ke_inf>
@@ -30,0 +34 @@
+<gloss>person who originated something</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
<audit time="2024-04-11 22:36:42" stat="A" unap="true">
<upd_detl>"originated something" is way too wide - the verb is 言う</upd_detl>
</audit>
<audit time="2024-04-11 22:55:14" stat="A">
<upd_uid>jwb</upd_uid>
<upd_name>Jim Breen</upd_name>
<upd_email>...address hidden...</upd_email>
<upd_detl>No, the verb is 言い出す. I think as a third gloss the use of "originated" is OK, but can be a bit broader.</upd_detl>
<upd_refs>GG5: 君が言い出しっぺなのだから君からやれ． It was your idea, so you do it first． ｜ You're the one who suggested it; you start.
言い出す （いいだす） (v5s,vt) (1) to begin to say; to start talking; to broach (a matter); to bring up; to come out with; (v5s,vt) (2) to be the first to say; to suggest (doing); to propose</upd_refs>
<upd_diff>@@ -34 +34 @@
-<gloss>person who originated something</gloss>
+<gloss>person who raised a matter</gloss></upd_diff>
</audit>
</info>
</entry>