Re: Search-only senses

[Jim Breen <jimbreen@*********>]

Thanks, Kim, for raising this.

Support for E->J lookups has always been a thing of interest, and we
often included glosses that can assist. That said, it's recognized
that the practice of not including verb or adjective glosses for
(n.vs) and (n,adj-*) entries can make such lookups difficult. You
won't easily find 料理 by looking up "to cook".  About 20 years ago I
did some experimenting within WWWJDIC with taking a search key such as
"to XXXX" and converting it to possible targets such as "XXXXing". It
was noisy and only partially successful. and eventually I gave up.
(Ironically it would have worked with 着陸.)

Certainly adding verb glosses, either as new senses or within the
existing senses would help, but it would be a major task - about
13,000 entries are of the "n,vs" variety. I hadn't even thought about
"hidden glosses", but it's an interesting concept. Rough versions
could be created automatically, but I think human involvement would be
needed to get any reliability. and if work is going to be needed the
results may as well be visible.

If you look at the 着陸 entry in GG5, it has:
  (a) landing; alighting; 〔接地〕 a touchdown.
  ～する land; make a landing; alight; 〔接地〕 touch [put, set] down.

You could envisage the current JMdict glosses ("landing; alighting;
touch down") being extended with something like:
"{vf} land; alight; set down". That would allow dictionary systems to
respond to keys such as "to land". A sense extension of this form
would not upset the sense numbering.

Anyway, food for thought, and thanks for raising it. I'll be
interested to see what the community thinks.

Jim

On Wed, 6 Dec 2023 at 18:34, Kim Ahlström <kim.ahlstrom@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
>
> A Jisho.org user recently emailed me to ask why he could not find 着陸 when searching for "to land". Since it's tagged as a noun and suru verb the definition is written in the noun form (landing; alighting; touch down).
>
> The editorial policy specifically states that these entries should not include verb glosses, but allows it for entries where the verb sense can not be easily derived from the noun sense, and for vs entries that are also not n.
>
> Is the intent here that verb senses could be derived computationally by dictionary software for vs+n entries to make them findable as verbs? A computational approach seems within the realm of possibility, but a human curated approach would be more accurate.
>
> Since we now have search-only readings, could we introduce search-only senses or glosses to make finding these vs+n entries easier when searching in English using verb forms?
>
> Cheers
> Kim
>
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-- 
Jim Breen
Adjunct Snr Research Fellow, Japanese Studies Centre, Monash University
http://www.jimbreen.org/
http://nihongo.monash.edu/

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