Re: [edict-jmdict] About entries containing "with negative"

["Zarlan ." <zarlan@********>]

I tried looking at the mailing lists 
homepage, and it appears that the mails are shown there, and without any
 issues, so as long as what I send, doesn't come out as gibberish (and 
it hasn't, so far), things should work out fine


To answer what you said:

>Consider how you'd translate these lines of dialogue:


>


>「いっさい！」


Can you show an example of that being said?

I don't know that I've ever encountered it, but then I'm far from a master of the language, as yet, so it may just be ignorance.


More importantly, when words are dropped, because the listener/reader 
should be able to understand what words are "supposed to be there", 
without them explicitly being stated, the omitted words are still 
(implicitly) part of the sentence.


For example:

"Zettai!" (絶対!) could mean

"boku ha zettai sou shimasu" (I'll definitely do that/I'll definitely do it like that)

"aitsu ha zettai kimi wo korosanai" (he/she will definitely not kill you)

or countless other things, depending on the context.


This does not mean  that the word "zettai" means all those things, but 
that the complete sentence, _including_ the omitted words, when 
translated _as a whole_, mean those things.

Zettai, by itself, just means "definitely"/"absolutely", in each and every one of those examples.

Hence that is the only meaning that is relevant, when looking at what the word "zettai" means.

/Alan

<-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->

From: Darren Cook darren@********* [edict-jmdict] [edict-jmdict@***************] Sent: 7/9/2019 9:25:31 AM To: edict-jmdict@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [edict-jmdict] About entries containing "with negative"  ?   Welcome to the mailing list Alan. Remember that JMDict has been hammered into shape over nearly 30 years, and is used by a lot of different people and software for a lot of different purposes. So it has incorporated a lot of diverse feedback already, and what other dictionaries do is also considered. So wanting to modify very common words, especially in bulk, is usually best discussed here. (And some people argue their point directly, some will be more Japanese and spend three paragraphs talking about the seasonal weather and your health to say "no". Don't take offence at either, it is not personal.) > Anyway, to get to the issue at hand: > Entries that state "with negative verb" or something similar.. > ... I'd personally gloss ?? as "(emphasizer for following negative sentiment)". (But if it is always used with a verb, as I think it is, then that should be written too.) It would be very dangerous to gloss it as "absolutely", even if with a comment that a negative verb follows, because Japanese, especially spoken/manga Japanese, might drop the following verb. Consider how you'd translate these lines of dialogue: ?????!? Or even ???????????????!? I.e. something like "No!" or "**** off!", and "Didn't you say never again?" Darren